Wells Fargo Bank Scam

Let me get this right...Wells Fargo Bank management devises a scheme to defraud over 1.5 MILLION of its customers, and the rank and file clerks get to take it in the shorts?

The South Dakota-based banking institution reviewed account activity going back to 2011. It has fired 5,300 employees accused of illegally enrolling customers to meet sales quotas.

Last time this bank got caught with its hand in the cookie jar the taxpayer handed the CEO John Stumpf 13 million as a bonus and gave the bank 26 billion to tide it over. Can't wait to see what pay-bonus he gets this time for such a creative scam that I am sure he knew nothing about. Also sure that all the other banks are ignorant and innocent of the same E36 M3.

Wells Fargo has kind of a Western name to it, could we PLEASE bring back public lynching as a form of CEO bonus?

Just removed the last of my assets from their control last week. Phew!

WF is rapidly turning into BoA

Wells Fargo

the new Chase......

I figured out that Wells Fargo was pure evil 12 years ago when they began the process of screwing me out of my house..

I'm rather surprised that there wasn't or isn't a criminal investigation as well. I read something that there were 5500ish low level employees let go. The chances that all of them came up with that plan individually are incredibly small so there had to be some sort of institutionalized wink and nudge.

Also 100 million dollar fine? 2016 Q2 profits for Wells Fargo were $5.56 billion. 100 million is nothing (1.7% of profits).

NOHOME wrote: Let me get this right...Wells Fargo Bank management devises a scheme to defraud over 1.5 MILLION of its customers, and the rank and file clerks get to take it in the shorts?

The South Dakota-based banking institution reviewed account activity going back to 2011. It has fired 5,300 employees accused of illegally enrolling customers to meet sales quotas.

Last time this bank got caught with its hand in the cookie jar the taxpayer handed the CEO John Stumpf 13 million as a bonus and gave the bank 26 billion to tide it over. Can't wait to see what pay-bonus he gets this time for such a creative scam that I am sure he knew nothing about. Also sure that all the other banks are ignorant and innocent of the same E36 M3. Wells Fargo has kind of a Western name to it, could we PLEASE bring back public lynching as a form of CEO bonus?

Wells Fargo management didn't devise a scheme to defraud it's customers.

What happened is that they made unreasonable sales goals for their staff and made so much of their salary dependent on bonuses SO feeling pressure not to GET RICH but to STAY EMPLOYED, low level tellers and salespeople opened accounts without customer's knowledge or express consent. So slowly over the last few years (not just yesterday) 5,300 employees (out of 260,000 ish)were fired for this reason and it totalled almost 2 million accounts.

I'm not defending them , I just don't believe WF management devised a plan to have their employees fraudulently open accounts so they could get money on fees.They understand their reputation risk is worth WAY more than 2 million mostly inactive accounts getting annual fees once before they close. I think the tellers and whoever making $26k a year was trying to not lose their job by not hitting sales goals of 14 new credit card applications a week (or whatever) and opened them even after customers said no thanks or didn't understand.

crankwalk wrote: They understand their reputation risk is worth WAY more than 2 million mostly inactive accounts getting annual fees once before they close.

The idea of the too big to jail banks having any reputation to salvage is funny.

ok.. so the banks are too big fail.. now that they are in no danger of dragging the whole world down the rabbit hole with them.. can we break them into smaller banks?

In reply to mad_machine:

They are too big to jail. I don't think anything will be done to break them up. We will just all be on the hook to bail them out again when their latest bubble pops.

Not to mention the restitution to the innocent customers caught in it is capped at $25

T.J. wrote:

crankwalk wrote: They understand their reputation risk is worth WAY more than 2 million mostly inactive accounts getting annual fees once before they close.

The idea of the too big to jail banks having any reputation to salvage is funny.

Any company with billions in profits, millions in customers, and shareholders wanting more and more each year is going to have a hard to keep performing and making everybody happy. So, who can they take the most from? A little from the customers, more from the employees, and nothing from the shareholders.

Again, I'm not defending Wells Fargo but I think some people understand what happened. This isn't as NOHOME stated that "Wells Fargo devised a scheme..."

I don't criticize Wells Fargo for devising a scheme to defraud these customers because that isn't what happened. I criticize Wells Fargo leadership for their performance policies, pay structure (high percentage of commission just to make $28k a yr), and unattainable sales goals that caused this issue that they were slow to make adjustments about over the last 5 years because they are too big to piece it all together.

crankwalk wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Let me get this right...Wells Fargo Bank management devises a scheme to defraud over 1.5 MILLION of its customers, and the rank and file clerks get to take it in the shorts?

The South Dakota-based banking institution reviewed account activity going back to 2011. It has fired 5,300 employees accused of illegally enrolling customers to meet sales quotas.

Last time this bank got caught with its hand in the cookie jar the taxpayer handed the CEO John Stumpf 13 million as a bonus and gave the bank 26 billion to tide it over. Can't wait to see what pay-bonus he gets this time for such a creative scam that I am sure he knew nothing about. Also sure that all the other banks are ignorant and innocent of the same E36 M3. Wells Fargo has kind of a Western name to it, could we PLEASE bring back public lynching as a form of CEO bonus?

Wells Fargo management didn't devise a scheme to defraud it's customers. What happened is that they made unreasonable sales goals for their staff and made so much of their salary dependent on bonuses SO feeling pressure not to GET RICH but to STAY EMPLOYED, low level tellers and salespeople opened accounts without customer's knowledge or express consent. So slowly over the last few years (not just yesterday) 5,300 employees (out of 260,000 ish)were fired for this reason and it totalled almost 2 million accounts. I'm not defending them , I just don't believe WF management devised a plan to have their employees fraudulently open accounts so they could get money on fees.They understand their reputation risk is worth WAY more than 2 million mostly inactive accounts getting annual fees once before they close. I think the tellers and whoever making $26k a year was trying to not lose their job by not hitting sales goals of 14 new credit card applications a week (or whatever) and opened them even after customers said no thanks or didn't understand.

Sorry, but I don't buy a word of that bullE36 M3. When I hear excuses like this, I have to ask if management is incompetent or stupid. I, as a juror, would hang them (and I do mean this in a literal way) for both crimes. The American middle class is in the middle of the biggest plucking it has ever seen, and they are totally unaware of it and when it does surface, gets this kind of lame excuse. White collar crime in America DOES pay and is actually rewarded with bonuses when discovered. That needs to change.

In a sane world, every single customer of Wells Fargo would withdraw their money as soon as possible. Leaving it there is like saying "I use a pedophile as a sitter cause its the only guy I can get"

In reply to NOHOME:

As soon as it quits being profitable, it will change. Until then, we can all just bend over, and complain about it after the fact.

I did my part many years ago moving anything I'm willing to lose into a local credit union, where I drink with the owner occasionally, instead of to those giant profiteering factories. Without getting too far into questionable territory, after the PUBLICIZED abuses and problems of the last decade, I hold contempt even for bank tellers these days. You KNOW what your higherups are doing, by voluntarily working for them, you're just as bad as they are, if not worse because YOU ARE the face of the company to most people.

NOHOME wrote:

crankwalk wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Let me get this right...Wells Fargo Bank management devises a scheme to defraud over 1.5 MILLION of its customers, and the rank and file clerks get to take it in the shorts?

The South Dakota-based banking institution reviewed account activity going back to 2011. It has fired 5,300 employees accused of illegally enrolling customers to meet sales quotas.

Last time this bank got caught with its hand in the cookie jar the taxpayer handed the CEO John Stumpf 13 million as a bonus and gave the bank 26 billion to tide it over. Can't wait to see what pay-bonus he gets this time for such a creative scam that I am sure he knew nothing about. Also sure that all the other banks are ignorant and innocent of the same E36 M3. Wells Fargo has kind of a Western name to it, could we PLEASE bring back public lynching as a form of CEO bonus?

Wells Fargo management didn't devise a scheme to defraud it's customers. What happened is that they made unreasonable sales goals for their staff and made so much of their salary dependent on bonuses SO feeling pressure not to GET RICH but to STAY EMPLOYED, low level tellers and salespeople opened accounts without customer's knowledge or express consent. So slowly over the last few years (not just yesterday) 5,300 employees (out of 260,000 ish)were fired for this reason and it totalled almost 2 million accounts. I'm not defending them , I just don't believe WF management devised a plan to have their employees fraudulently open accounts so they could get money on fees.They understand their reputation risk is worth WAY more than 2 million mostly inactive accounts getting annual fees once before they close. I think the tellers and whoever making $26k a year was trying to not lose their job by not hitting sales goals of 14 new credit card applications a week (or whatever) and opened them even after customers said no thanks or didn't understand.

Sorry, but I don't buy a word of that bullE36 M3. When I hear excuses like this, I have to ask if management is incompetent or stupid. I, as a juror, would hang them (and I do mean this in a literal way) for both crimes. The American middle class is in the middle of the biggest plucking it has ever seen, and they are totally unaware of it and when it does surface, gets this kind of lame excuse. White collar crime in America DOES pay and is actually rewarded with bonuses when discovered. That needs to change. In a sane world, every single customer of Wells Fargo would withdraw their money as soon as possible. Leaving it there is like saying "I use a pedophile as a sitter cause its the only guy I can get"

I'm not saying people shouldn't be mad, shouldn't move their money, there's nothing we can do etc.

All I'm just saying is that Wells Fargo didn't instruct their employees to open fake accounts to get fees. The employees did that on their own because they were trying not to get fired for not meeting impossible monthly goals. It's still Wells Fargo management's fault but not because what you're implying.

crankwalk wrote:

NOHOME wrote:

crankwalk wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Let me get this right...Wells Fargo Bank management devises a scheme to defraud over 1.5 MILLION of its customers, and the rank and file clerks get to take it in the shorts?

The South Dakota-based banking institution reviewed account activity going back to 2011. It has fired 5,300 employees accused of illegally enrolling customers to meet sales quotas.

Last time this bank got caught with its hand in the cookie jar the taxpayer handed the CEO John Stumpf 13 million as a bonus and gave the bank 26 billion to tide it over. Can't wait to see what pay-bonus he gets this time for such a creative scam that I am sure he knew nothing about. Also sure that all the other banks are ignorant and innocent of the same E36 M3. Wells Fargo has kind of a Western name to it, could we PLEASE bring back public lynching as a form of CEO bonus?

Wells Fargo management didn't devise a scheme to defraud it's customers. What happened is that they made unreasonable sales goals for their staff and made so much of their salary dependent on bonuses SO feeling pressure not to GET RICH but to STAY EMPLOYED, low level tellers and salespeople opened accounts without customer's knowledge or express consent. So slowly over the last few years (not just yesterday) 5,300 employees (out of 260,000 ish)were fired for this reason and it totalled almost 2 million accounts. I'm not defending them , I just don't believe WF management devised a plan to have their employees fraudulently open accounts so they could get money on fees.They understand their reputation risk is worth WAY more than 2 million mostly inactive accounts getting annual fees once before they close. I think the tellers and whoever making $26k a year was trying to not lose their job by not hitting sales goals of 14 new credit card applications a week (or whatever) and opened them even after customers said no thanks or didn't understand.

Sorry, but I don't buy a word of that bullE36 M3. When I hear excuses like this, I have to ask if management is incompetent or stupid. I, as a juror, would hang them (and I do mean this in a literal way) for both crimes. The American middle class is in the middle of the biggest plucking it has ever seen, and they are totally unaware of it and when it does surface, gets this kind of lame excuse. White collar crime in America DOES pay and is actually rewarded with bonuses when discovered. That needs to change. In a sane world, every single customer of Wells Fargo would withdraw their money as soon as possible. Leaving it there is like saying "I use a pedophile as a sitter cause its the only guy I can get"

I'm not saying people shouldn't be mad, shouldn't move their money, there's nothing we can do etc. All I'm just saying is that Wells Fargo didn't instruct their employees to open fake accounts to get fees. The employees did that on their own because they were trying not to get fired for not meeting impossible monthly goals. It's still Wells Fargo management's fault but not because what you're implying.

So then you are working on the premise that every senior manager at Wells Fargo is a blithering idiot?

I am equally outraged that there is not some law-enforcement agency that step in to shut down Wells Fargo permanently for this level of scam. Ever since the "too big to prosecute" amendment was made to the US constitution this E36 M3 has become the norm rather than the exception.

Wells Fargo has just opened itself to a lot of (individual or class-action) lawsuits for wrongful dismissal.

Don't like big banks? Join a Credit Union. Member supported, not for profit. I've stopped banking at for profit institutions for years and haven't looked back.

I've been happy keeping a small Wells Fargo account open. No more than $500 sits in that account. Just enough to be considered a member and benefit from the fact that they've got branches nearly everywhere in the southwest.

NOHOME wrote: So then you are working on the premise that every senior manager at Wells Fargo is a blithering idiot? I am equally outraged that there is not some law-enforcement agency that step in to shut down Wells Fargo permanently for this level of scam. Ever since the "too big to prosecute" amendment was made to the US constitution this E36 M3 has become the norm rather than the exception.

Yeah I am saying WF leadership was greedy and their company was so big that no 1 person could see the scope of their policy failures. They set goals for their people to generate profit that were unattainable and put their employees in terrible spots. This scandal is a by product, a side effect of that ineptitude and greed. That's hard to press charges against.

If WF instructed their employees to open these accounts that customers didn't know about to get fees then ABSOLUTELY charges could be filed on.

If WF told it's employees to hit crazy sales numbers (or you're fired) but also maintain our policies, rule and federal regulation (CYA) but then employees violated that and were subsequently fired over a 5 year period... that's hard to prove in a court of law how much the corporation is directly responsible for.

So again, I don't think this scam was Wells Fargo management's idea, however that doesn't mean their greedy policies made an environment that could cause this widespread horseE36 M3 over several years.

Bottom line...this stuff pays BIG and is not prosecutable. That is a great comfort.

Can someone please tell me why there are not 5,500 criminal charges being pursued against the tellers who did the actual button pushing? If there were, perhaps they might throw some bosses under the bus.

If WF survives this, it is a testament to human stupidity. As the quote goes...“If God did not want them sheared,” He would not have made them sheep!”

Any news of how big the CEO bonus is going to be for this?

Rev Rico said: As soon as it quits being profitable, it will change. Until then, we can all just bend over, and complain about it after the fact.

Former Wells Fargo executive Carrie Tolstedt oversaw a unit of the bank where employees ran a customer account scam that led to $185 million in fines. She left with nearly that much cash getting stuffed into her pockets. Tolstedt received a $124.6 million golden parachute from Wells Fargo when she left in July — and didn’t have to pay back any of the nine-figure salary from her scandalous tenure, Fortune reported Monday.

I guess we can assume that it wont be anytime soon?

I agree that she should have received this much money. Only in quarters, and dropped on her from the top floor of the head office building.

The wording of that post is a little weird.

Former Wells Fargo executive Carrie Tolstedt oversaw a unit of the bank where employees ran a customer account scam that led to $185 million in fines.

That makes it seem like it was some organized ponzi scheme and it wasn't. It wasn't organized at all. It was thousands of independent employees all over the country (that don't know each other for the most part) opening accounts here and there without consent for years and that's hard to track.

As far as her compensation, the thing is, Wells Fargo paid her all that money AND they will pay all the fees and reimbursements and still have billions.

NOHOME wrote: Sorry, but I don't buy a word of that bullE36 M3. When I hear excuses like this, I have to ask if management is incompetent or stupid. I, as a juror, would hang them (and I do mean this in a literal way) for both crimes. The American middle class is in the middle of the biggest plucking it has ever seen, and they are totally unaware of it and when it does surface, gets this kind of lame excuse. White collar crime in America DOES pay and is actually rewarded with bonuses when discovered. That needs to change. In a sane world, every single customer of Wells Fargo would withdraw their money as soon as possible. Leaving it there is like saying "I use a pedophile as a sitter cause its the only guy I can get"

Don't worry guys, they really came down on the person that was in charge of that division she was allowed to retire (not fired) and now must survive on her 125 million dollars in stock options, bonuses etc...

http://fortune.com/2016/09/12/wells-fargo-cfpb-carrie-tolstedt/

Lesson learned eh?

I don't care if she did not know about what was going on. She SHOULD have known what is going on. If she didn't, that only adds to her incompetence.

Anybody who does not believe this was planned, organized and managed from the top needs to come see the bridge I have for sale. It's a good one. I am letting it go cheap because I need to pay for my dogs manicure. Trust me.

And yeah I do get that a bank is not a fiduciary. However, it seems that every symbiotic business relationship has moved over to become parasitic.