Westboro "church" funeral protests = protected speech

So what about the rights of the people at the funerals? Don't they have the right to grieve in peace?

HiTempguy wrote: I don't think anybody has an issue with letting them say it. It is WHERE they say it. I can't go into the WhiteHouse, stand in front of the prez, and be all "Blacks are immoral people, you are going to burn in hell!" Didn't one state set up a law stating all protests had to be XXX far away from a funeral? That seems perfectly legal solution to this.

I read a few different articles that say they have to be 1000 feet away. Still close enough to cause problems if you ask me.

I agree with the ruling.. and I am saddened by the minority dissenter. So much for Alito upholding the very word of the constitution like so many people wish them to

I am not sure how successful it has been, but there is a counter group called the Angels of Peace or something, that go to the WBC funeral protests and stand between the WBC and the funeral with homemade angel wings that are like 5' x 10' or something ridiculous to help shield the families/friends of the deceased.

The thing that bothers me the most is they aren't protesting the war or soldiers, they are protesting America's acceptance of Gays and saying that this acceptance forces God to punish the US by killing soldiers. Its such a stupid premise/point.

carguy123 wrote: So what about the rights of the people at the funerals? Don't they have the right to grieve in peace?

Not as per the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

flountown wrote: they are protesting America's acceptance of Gays and saying that this acceptance forces God to punish the US by killing soldiers. Its such a stupid premise/point.

To you.

Cone_Junky wrote:

bravenrace wrote:

Cone_Junky wrote: Lunatics powered by the "word of god".

Where do you get that from?

That would be based on everything they say, do, and print on a sign.

Yes, everything the lunatics say or wrote on a sign so it must be true. Why do you give them so much credibility? Like I said, it's not God, it's lunatics. Let's not confuse the two.

carguy123 wrote: So what about the rights of the people at the funerals? Don't they have the right to grieve in peace?

That's what's wrong with this and our country in general. We care more about the rights of the perpetrators than we do the victims. We layed my nephew to rest this past Monday. If they had been at his funeral they would have left in much worse condition than they came.

bravenrace wrote:

Cone_Junky wrote:

bravenrace wrote:

Cone_Junky wrote: Lunatics powered by the "word of god".

Where do you get that from?

That would be based on everything they say, do, and print on a sign. Yes. The lunatics wrote it on a sign so it must be true. Like I said, it's not God, it's lunatics. Let's not confuse the two.

Kind of like somebody wrote something in a "book" thousands of years ago...so it must be true. A make believe superpower floating in the sky and the dilusional that follow "him". Who exactly is confused?

If you support your interpretation of the Bible, you must accept their interpretation of the Bible too.

A great quote I read recently- "What's it like being an Athiest?" "It's like being the only sober person in a car full of drunks, and they refuse to pull over and let me drive."

bravenrace wrote: That's what's wrong with this and our country in general. We care more about the rights of the perpetrators than we do the victims.

No.

What's wrong with this country is that we have shiny happy people in it.

Rights are universal, which means shiny happy people have them, and shiny happy people will exercise their rights in manners that exercise the tolerance of the rest of us.

The measure of a people is whether or not they stick to their morals and ethics regarding those rights in spite of the shiny happy people, or if they say "we don't want the shiny happy people to be able to do this, so we'll give up all of our freedom to not have to put up with what this small group of people are doing".

EDIT: You know, this post lost it's impact with the word replacement...

Cone_Junky wrote: A great quote I read recently- "What's it like being an Athiest?" "It's like being the only sober person in a car full of drunks, and they refuse to pull over and let me drive."

So, atheists get to be azzholes, too..........

Even bigger when they get to be the judge and jury on what constitutes being "drunk".

Actually religions have the history of being the judge and jury of all things moral. In fact, that's thier whole point. I've already been "judged" immoral by the eyes of god and am going to hell...according to Catholic interpretations of god's word.

Save your judgements for yourself.

In reply to Cone_Junky:

I can see that this is going nowhere, so I'm out.

In reply to ReverendDexter:

I don't agree. Okay?

bravenrace wrote: In reply to ReverendDexter: I don't agree. Okay?

No, it's not okay. Because you're not explaining the why behind your position. This is a very tolerant board with people who are capable of having decent converstations about very volatile subjects. It doesn't help me at all for you to say "I believe X, and if you don't, well, you're wrong" and then duck out. For me to broaden my understanding, I need you to explain why it is that you feel your position is valid (beyond the inherent validity of all positions in a subjective topic like this). I don't know anyone who likes being wrong, myself more than anyone I know. I'd like to understand what steps you're taking to get to where you are, so combined we both have better understanding of the world than when we started.

Elsewise we're just two people who don't see eye-to-eye, not two people in a community creating mutual benefit for each other.

Cone_Junky wrote: Actually religions have the history of being the judge and jury of all things moral. In fact, that's thier whole point. I've already been "judged" immoral by the eyes of god and am going to hell...according to Catholic interpretations of god's word. Save your judgements for yourself.

I'm not making any judgements, just pointing out that your stance has a strong presence of hypocrisy.

Moral codes have roots that involve religious influence. Such codes may have evolved differently without that influence, or not. But you're passing judgement on the same people you criticize for passing judgement.

The good thing is that it is your right to do so; just as it for those who think otherwise.

Cone_Junky:

You bring a lot of hostility to any conversation that you can manage to bring the word "god" into.

You have not made a single positive comment in this thread.

Nobody's attacking you. You are creating a hostile environment, calling other people names, and then wondering why it doesn't go so well for you.

Even when we agree (that Westboro guys are idiots), you still manage to throw rocks at people who believe differently than you.

I don't think your beef has anything whatsoever to do with anything anyone on this board has said.

How the Grinch stole Christmas: It could be, perhaps, that his shoes were too tight. Or maybe his head wasn't screwed on just right. But I think that the most likely reason of all may have been that his heart was two sizes too small.

Cone_Junky wrote: If you support your interpretation of the Bible, you must accept their interpretation of the Bible too.

wha? i really don't follow your logic. if i have an interpretation of the bible, i might accept that the WB dumbasses have an interpretation, but that doesn't mean i accept their particular interpretation of it, because i don't, and wouldn't agree with it at all. i don't know any christians that agree with their interpretation, actually.

kinda like saying because i have an opinion, i have to share the same opinion as someone else just because I have one.

religious (christian in this case) people dispensing judgement does suck, but that is a human shortcoming. the Bible specifically teaches not to judge others. whether or not purported followers are capable of abiding in that is another matter.

ScottyB wrote: the Bible specifically teaches not to judge others

Where?

Are you talking about Matthew 7:1-2, or some other passage(s)? 'Cause those two don't teach people not to judge, they're just the biblical way of saying "there's always someone faster".

Is there anything "positive" about what the Westboro church is doing? Is there anything "positive" about people being upset that the vote was 8-1 and not 9-0? Is there anything "positive" about saying thier premise of god punishing us for gays is stupid?

These are all comments posted by other members, yet mine is the only "negative" posting here?

My judgements are based on the way that Westboro treats it's fellow humans. The religious judgements are based on a book written thousands of years ago and interpreted in thousands of different ways over the years to support their personal opinions.

I understand that you may be upset because I may be bringing up subjects that are uncomfortable to those who fear god. But I have spent my life being made uncomfortable by the religious because I don't believe what they want me to beleive.

What makes one follower a lunatic and another correct? You're assuming that your belief is more correct then, right?

Is it time for dessert yet?

The issue isn't God or people who don't believe in him, it's common courtesy and common sense. It seems that if you use common sense then you are being politically incorrect to someone else.

BTW even tho you don't believe in something doesn't make it true.

CJ: It was a positive political discussion, where people of differing perspectives could agree about both the political decision and the disapproval of WB.

You were the first person in this thread to mention God.

But that wasn't enough. You did it in an accusational way, like anyone who is stupid enough to believe in Him is completely aligned with the WB idiots.

You are judging WB, and applying those judgements to anyone else who is a Christian, in spite of the fact that not one person (Christian or otherwise) in this thread has indicated any support of them.

To top it off, you then accuse OTHERS of being judgemental.

I have no discomfort with God. Your discomfort is obvious, and I think you should accept responsibility for your own life, and stop blaming others.

I am sorry that you have been hurt.

Man this thread got sideways fast....never would have thought that would happen. I agree with the verdict but don't like it at all personally because I don't believe their assertion about gays, punishment, blah blah blah. I just wish we could ignore their stupid asses and they would go away. They should be happy they didn't show up in my hometown when a soldier was recently buried. I know a few people who I went to high school with who might have been real offended and some folks likely would have gotten hurt or dead.

OK, I'm not going to into the philosophical argued above. I'm just going to say I'm really happy we live in a country where you can say really nasty stuff and not get a death sentence for it. It's not like that in most of the rest of the world. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press are mandatory for a true free country.

carguy123 wrote: BTW even tho you don't believe in something doesn't make it true.

Quoted for ironic effect.