As a Christian we say all we really deserve is hell due to our sins but through accepting Jesus Christ as Savior we get the free gift of salvation. Ephesians 2:8-9.
Interesting take on what we deserve. That and an old Datsun.
As a Christian we say all we really deserve is hell due to our sins but through accepting Jesus Christ as Savior we get the free gift of salvation. Ephesians 2:8-9.
Interesting take on what we deserve. That and an old Datsun.
I mentioned something similar to Mrs. VCH the other day. A commercial came on (we don't watch much TV, so we tend to pay attention when we do and notice stuff) about "keeping up with the Joneses". Now, I can recall a time and place when that phrase, "Keeping up with the Joneses" was a derogatory way of saying someone was spending a lot of money to make themselves seem richer. Now, ad companies are turning that on its head and actually telling people they need to keep up with their neighbors, so they don't seem poor.
To which me, and Mrs VCH, both give said company a hearty middle finger. berkeley 'em. Let them think we're poor. Looking rich ain't all it's cracked up to be.
Appleseed said:I deserve insulin (the exact same insulin that cost $21.00 out of pocket in 1996) that should now be $34.00, not $280.00 with insurance.
Tell me how I earned that?
If you view healthcare as an essential human right, you are entitled to insulin, since it is essential to your health. If you don't feel that way, the only way you deserve insulin is if you earn enough money to pay for it.
Again, the distinction is critical. In order to deserve something your actions have to lead you there. In this vein, it sounds like you have type 1 diabetes, which you did nothing to deserve. Me? At one point I was fat and inactive, knowing I had a genetic predisposition to type 2 diabetes, and I got it. I probably deserved that.
In reply to Datsun310Guy :
I’ve been around enough of Europe, and read enough history, to have seen how that line of thinking has been used to deny people of what has been listed here as basic universal entitlements. So, perhaps you’ll forgive me for being unfulfilled with the idea that there are no entitlements, and everything is earned.
In reply to ‘Entitlement’ vs. ‘Earned’ :
Generally, I don’t like dichotomies. The more I think about, and interact with, the world... inching closer grokking the fullness of it, and remaining miles from that... the more I feel that dichotomies fail to let people understand the complexity of all of this that we live and experience.
I’ve thought about ‘there are these limited entitlements, and beyond them you only deserve what you earn’ enough to realize that’s why I don’t like this particular argument... the dichotomy of these handful of limited entitlements, and everything else is earned. I haven’t thought about it long enough to identify where it’s lacking complexity.
our forefathers got it right and it need go no further we deserve life (no one should take it from us), liberty (we should be free to make our own choices) and the pursuit of happiness ( it is what you make it pursue it but no one will give it to you) beyond that you deserve nothing, go earn it.
Appleseed said:I deserve insulin (the exact same insulin that cost $21.00 out of pocket in 1996) that should now be $34.00, not $280.00 with insurance.
Tell me how I earned that?
$25 per vial at Walmart. Leave your insurance out of the equation and the price drops dramatically.
I guess I don't mind those commercials they are just saying what they show. Handsome and pretty people always smiling as they eat/drive/hangout etc. Selling fantasy.
But it is troubling that it works on many.
JThw8 said:our forefathers got it right and it need go no further we deserve life (no one should take it from us), liberty (we should be free to make our own choices) and the pursuit of happiness ( it is what you make it pursue it but no one will give it to you) beyond that you deserve nothing, go earn it.
In that context “deserve” more refers to the government protecting those things. The marketing use of “deserves” seems to lean more towards a definition that is closer to Required or Obligatory.
The “happiness” part was almost “property”.
Of note, the “happiness” part is considered to refer to:
Properly understood, therefore, when John Locke, Samuel Johnson, and Thomas Jefferson wrote of “the pursuit of happiness,” they were invoking the Greek and Roman philosophical tradition in which happiness is bound up with the civic virtues of courage, moderation, and justice. Because they are civic virtues, not just personal attributes, they implicate the social aspect of eudaimonia. The pursuit of happiness, therefore, is not merely a matter of achieving individual pleasure...
In reply to aircooled :
Well put. "Happiness" doesn't mean what it does in Brave New World...
I love that word - eudaimonia - by the way. I need to use it more often.
volvoclearinghouse said:I mentioned something similar to Mrs. VCH the other day. A commercial came on (we don't watch much TV, so we tend to pay attention when we do and notice stuff) about "keeping up with the Joneses". Now, I can recall a time and place when that phrase, "Keeping up with the Joneses" was a derogatory way of saying someone was spending a lot of money to make themselves seem richer. Now, ad companies are turning that on its head and actually telling people they need to keep up with their neighbors, so they don't seem poor.
To which me, and Mrs VCH, both give said company a hearty middle finger. berkeley 'em. Let them think we're poor. Looking rich ain't all it's cracked up to be.
I've had customers like that. The shining example was a couple wearing the latest fashion, who had a BMW 540i on bald tires (in the winter!) and some heavy deferred repairs, and they wanted us to "just fix it" but they couldn't afford to have us diagnose it in order to know what to repair in order for it to be fixed.
After a long conversation that kept going in circles of the customer wanting to throw a part at it, and us telling them that it may not fix it, and then the suggesting we throw a different part at it, etc..., my coworker mused to me that they probably had a huge house in an opulent neighborhood, with no furniture inside.
aircooled said:JThw8 said:our forefathers got it right and it need go no further we deserve life (no one should take it from us), liberty (we should be free to make our own choices) and the pursuit of happiness ( it is what you make it pursue it but no one will give it to you) beyond that you deserve nothing, go earn it.
In that context “deserve” more refers to the government protecting those things. The marketing use of “deserves” seems to lean more towards a definition that is closer to Required or Obligatory.
The “happiness” part was almost “property”.
Of note, the “happiness” part is considered to refer to:
Properly understood, therefore, when John Locke, Samuel Johnson, and Thomas Jefferson wrote of “the pursuit of happiness,” they were invoking the Greek and Roman philosophical tradition in which happiness is bound up with the civic virtues of courage, moderation, and justice. Because they are civic virtues, not just personal attributes, they implicate the social aspect of eudaimonia. The pursuit of happiness, therefore, is not merely a matter of achieving individual pleasure...
True, but adjusted for modern context, happiness is different - which is a difficulty we often have today - applying modern definitions to texts from a bygone era. Still, I think the founding fathers weren't far off the mark. We have an inalienable right to pursue happiness. We do not have the right to be happy. Too many folks miss that part.
As far as myself and what I "deserve"... I don't know.. some of my own depression comes from having so much more than many others out of pure chance of birth and being in the right place at the right time.
Thinking that someone "deserves" something for nebulous or basic reasons- like basic kindness- is how we got Incels. It's creepy to me to think how someone "deserving" something can be so readily weaponized.
JThw8 said:Appleseed said:I deserve insulin (the exact same insulin that cost $21.00 out of pocket in 1996) that should now be $34.00, not $280.00 with insurance.
Tell me how I earned that?
$25 per vial at Walmart. Leave your insurance out of the equation and the price drops dramatically.
Where are you at? Mine was $164 in cash for humulin.
Not to sound like an ass... but I work healthcare. I don't know of any supplier of insulin left in the states that less than a hundred dollars.
JThw8 said:Appleseed said:I deserve insulin (the exact same insulin that cost $21.00 out of pocket in 1996) that should now be $34.00, not $280.00 with insurance.
Tell me how I earned that?
$25 per vial at Walmart. Leave your insurance out of the equation and the price drops dramatically.
Are we talking old school N and R? Because with the extreme highs and lows making my heart hurt, I'd rather go without it.
But if it's "designer" insulin like Humalog and Lantus, I'll have to give it a look. I have zero expectations of a reasonable pirce, however.
It’s the old, “regular” kind.
Nothing.
In reply to mtn :
Figures. I mean if it came down to that awful stuff verses zero, well, I guess. But it realy sucks that much.
My point is that I think I deserve insulin that has a 65% increase in cost due to inflation, not 1,333% due to straight up greed.
FuzzWuzzy said:I've always wondered how people got to the point where they assume that they deserve something.
"I deserve a six figure salary. I deserve a 5/5 house. I deserve the newest [Insert object here]."
I think people are somehow confusing 'deserve' with 'want.'
If I do all that is expected of me and graduate at the head of the class, go to a top college and repeat. Work in a demanding industry that rewards financially then yes I desire every a six figure income.
If I perform as management wishes and produce desired results then yes I deserve an exclusive deluxe vacation.
If I am a leading successful figure in my industry, I deserve a fine home, fancy car, and attractive wife.
That’s what motivates people to do their best in a capitalistic society.
Now the reality is not everyone deserves everything which I think is the point you’re trying to make.
mtn said:It’s the old, “regular” kind.
Do you mean the old, ground-up pig pancreas kind? That's all short-term insulin, meaning it only functions for about 2 hours and requires multiple injections per day. It might "be" $25 bucks, but those users do 6-8 injections within a day versus the 2 for humilog that's a medium-acting; the savings quickly disappear.
Ian F said:We have an inalienable right to pursue happiness. We do not have the right to be happy. Too many folks miss that part.
Another excellent point. Some would argue that the pursuit of happiness (in whatever form you deem it to be) is actually what creates satisfaction. The state of being happy, and content, is only temporary. Put it another way, you appreciate the sun a lot more after a big rain storm.
I noticed one type of commercial where "deserve" may actually apply, and its the injury lawyers. If someone hurts you due to negligence on their part, and you have medical bills that need paid, you deserve compensation. Most of them are scum and they stretch the definition of deserve way too far, but it seems that the basic concept is sound. Perhaps.
At the risk of sounding like an unsympathetic douchebag, I find it interesting that some people think they deserve to be able to buy something they are not creating themselves at some specific cost point.
Not deserving something bad that has happened is NOT the same as deserving something good to happen.
I believe I should be able to live my life without fear and to be treated as I treat others. I worked hard for what I have and continue to work hard for what I want.
I made a cake because my boy asked me to. I think I deserve a piece.
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