What I don't like about the direction Gran Turismo has taken

I miss the mundane cars. I actually miss them. I forgot whether it was GT3 or GT4 that cut out this stuff, but I liked having to work your way up. Pay your dues in that '95 Accord or Prelude before you hop into a Camaro. Heck, I'm even getting nostalgic about the Demio. The DEMIO!

More than that, I miss the used cars. It was great being about to grab a car at a discount, albeit slightly used, not that it had any disadvantages in the early games that had it. It makes more sense to offer older-model cars through the used market only. Why am I able to walk into a virtual dealership and buy a new 2000GT or '93 Supra (as cool as that sounds). And if they didn't have what you wanted, you left and came back after a while to see how the stock has changed. Maybe you could get a better deal, maybe your car would vanish entirely. I wish they'd bring that back; better if it was the only way to get old cars. I was never crazy about that ommission in GT3/GT4. Feh.

aside from prize cars, isnt that the way GT4 is?

GT3 and GT5: Prologue had pared-down car lists. GT4 had a huge list of used cars, though most of them were ported from GT2 and were mostly variants of Japanese cars (seriously, we don't need a gazillon versions of the Skyline). I understand the reasoning because the game is made in Japan, but I'd like it if GT5 would feature more older and obscurer American and European performance cars like Forza 3 does and cut down on the JDM car variants.

In reply to RexSeven:

I know that GT4 had old cars, but did they have the separate used car markets, like in GT and GT2 where you had a New Dealership and Used Dealership under Nissan. Then if you go to the used one, there is a list of cars. There may be five Silvia S13s, each a different color and price, and, say, four 300ZXs with different mileage and various differences etc... Then you could check back in a certain amount of time and the list of available cars would change.

I thought GT4 had old cars available, but side-by-side the newer cars under a consolidated single dealership, like Forza. No constantly-rotating list of cars available like GT and GT2. Could be wrong; it's been a whlie since I played GT4.

GT4 had some 0km older/classic cars at some of the dealerships. Some of those cars could be bought, some were just displays of prize cars you couldn't buy.

Most of the used cars were in 3 separate used car sections: One for pre-1980s cars, one for 1980-1989 cars, and one for post-1980s cars. The car list rotated once every in-game week.

GT4 has the used cars broken down by era. They are separate from the new cars.

I remember the original Gran Turismo. My first car was a Nissan Primera. I never played the later ones, but I did enjoy driving the "mundane" cars. I once had a wicked Accord wagon--lots of rear bar made it fun.

I almost always started with a mid-90s Prelude or, my favorite, a Mk III Supra.

Any word on how it'll work in GT5? They should make an in-game version of Craigslist, complete with deadbeat sellers, people buying the car out from under you, sellers misrepresenting their cars and not being there when you want to buy it.

Yeah i totally agree, i remember racing a 1988 honda accord for hours, or an AE86 with 300HP, stock suspension and open diff (i didn't understand handling or differentials as a kid, but i did understand horsepower) to work up to afford that used evo VI. Good times, nay, great times. Now I can just start GT5 (when they finally release the dang thing) and immediately import my collection of all of the Ferraris in prologue and GT psp. Or maybe I won't and i'll just play the game as is. I haven't decided yet.

In reply to JeepinMatt:

No idea, but definitely not like your idea. The vast majority of gamers buy starter cars like the Accord or Miata because a) they don't have enough money at the outset to buy a ZOMGl33tF3RrAr1!!1!, or b) they own(ed) a similar car in real life. Simulating having to fix up a rusty beater or dealing with an shiny happy person seller may be more realistic, but it isn't going to appeal to the casual gamer crowd.

The only part of "paying dues" you skip in GT4, is if you have a GT3 save game on the same card, you can transfer up to $100K and the bottom 3 liscences. I was able to start out with a 'Cuda

RexSeven wrote: In reply to JeepinMatt: Simulating having to fix up a rusty beater or dealing with an shiny happy person seller may be more realistic, but it isn't going to appeal to the casual gamer crowd.

Well I was joking about the CL part , but being able to buy a car in damaged condition at a discount and then pay for repairs or replacement parts sounds pretty cool.

The first time I played the original Gran Turismo was on my college roommate's Playstation...I should mention that he was from Thailand and all his games were in Japanese. That made deciphering some of the license tests decidedly more difficult. I'm embarrassed to admit how many times I just blew threw the quarter mile in the 3000GT without even trying to brake in the allotted space.

I'd be more concerned with the "cars are for looking at, not driving" theme that seems to get bigger and bigger with each passing version. The new "Walk-around" photo mode has been one of the biggest reasons for the delay.

Or the delay was because there were making it 3D and they could wait for the technology of the TVs catch up...

Whee, rant time!

What really irks me about these games is the "unlocking" system. It's too hard and too complex, and blocks me from experiencing 90% of the content that I bought it for. They should make a "no unlocking" version, call it the "whiny baby edition" or whatever, just let me play the damn thing without it being work. I won't spend hundreds of hours trudging through the game just so I can get a glimpse of the cars or tracks that I'm really interested to try out. Usually I'm not good enough anyway. If I can't make any progress in an hour of gaming, I'm going to put it down and probably never pick it up again, and if I predict that's going to be the case, I'm not gonna buy the thing.

If you dare suggest this to "capital-G Gamers" or game developers, they drone on about how the player having access to everything at once would kill the long-term play value, and no one would take it seriously, and blah blah blah. I've been playing video games since I was 2 years old, I don't have ham fists and I don't think "Mario Kart" is hard-core. if I get stuck at the "sucky baby level" and set it aside after three days, how is that good long-term play value?

Give me a "not so serious" version, let me build the coolest cars and drive the coolest tracks from the get-go. I want to play for a few hours, then put it away and pick it up again two weeks later with no drama. I guarentee I will enjoy it a E36 M3-ton more than I would if I get stuck driving "Fiat Punto Cup" on the half-mile oval because I can't spend weeks trying to jump through some hoops. And for god's sake don't block me from multiplayer because I bought this version and would therefore not be elite enough for online play. Sheesh!

Disclaimer: the last one I've owned was GT2. I did spend some time on that one and unlocked a lot of it, but never made it through the final class of "licencing." I had some really cool cars built and access to most of the tracks. Eventually I put it away for a while and when I went back to try again, my memory card had deteriorated and my saves were gone. Never picked it up again after that.

JeepinMatt wrote: In reply to RexSeven: I know that GT4 had old cars, but did they have the separate used car markets, like in GT and GT2 where you had a New Dealership and Used Dealership under Nissan. Then if you go to the used one, there is a list of cars. There may be five Silvia S13s, each a different color and price, and, say, four 300ZXs with different mileage and various differences etc... Then you could check back in a certain amount of time and the list of available cars would change. I thought GT4 had old cars available, but side-by-side the newer cars under a consolidated single dealership, like Forza. No constantly-rotating list of cars available like GT and GT2. Could be wrong; it's been a whlie since I played GT4.

The Used Cars in GT4 were in an entirely separate marketplace, not near the New Car dealers, and they were exactly as you describe. Multiple copies of a variety of daily-driver-type older cars, with varying amounts of mileage on them, in rotating list that repeats every 720 game days. Heck, there were even a series of all-black LeMans prototypes, etc. that only appeared once in the cycle. There were also special low-mileage cars that would pop up once in a while.

Heck, you even have to change the oil on the used cars right away, and higher-mile cars can benefit from the chassis refresh.

@JeepinMatt - I agree about the progression, and driving non-new non-super cars in the races. I very clearly remember playing GT4 with a Turbo'd Miata for a long time before getting another car. Good news is that all the cars for GT4 will be in GT5. Other car makers have been added, so hopefully we'll get some of their older cars as well (Maserati Bi-Turbo anyone?).

@Jay - GT5 will feature an Arcade mode, where most (all?) the cars and tracks will be unlocked. You just will not be able to tune or customize your car to the full extent without the career mode.

@Rufledt - I'm pretty sure they said the import would only be for Arcade mode? Not GT-Mode (career).

My complaint, based on playing GT:PSP, is that the competition you face seems to be based on purely HP numbers. For example, if I wanted to race my BMW 2002tii at Monaco with other cars from the era, I can't set that up. I'll likely end up racing a Toyota Yaris or Honda Civic. It ruins the immersion and experience. It also has a particularly bad effect of classic muscle cars with 4-speeds... you'll get paired with a new Corvette or something like that and get left for dust because your car cannot compete with the gearing in the new cars.

I'm less concerned after hearing how it was in GT4. I'm sure I bought it, but it just sort of blends together. GT3 must be the one that really irked me. I don't play many video games these days, but a few good ones a year. Gran Turismo is so nostalgic and flat-out fun that I'm planning on buying a PS3 and one of those fancy Logitech G27 wheels. I can sort of justify it by saying that I can use the wheel for any PC driving games too, and that the PS3 will play all 0 of my Blu-Rays, but I don't want to feel like I've bought a dumbed-down version or that I got cheated out of what makes Gran Turismo Gram Turismo.

What's the word on Forza-style engine swaps?

You'll be able to take really, REALLY nice photo's of otherwise bone stock cars, save for aftermarket wheels.

What really irks me about these games is the "unlocking" system. It's too hard and too complex, and blocks me from experiencing 90% of the content that I bought it for. They should make a "no unlocking" version, call it the "whiny baby edition" or whatever, just let me play the damn thing without it being work.

Sounds like rFactor is for you!!!

None of you would happen to be familiar with the Logitech G27 to give me any insight as to how the clutch feels and if it works like a real one should, would you? Or steering and shifting feel, for that matter.

It's so much cheaper than the Fanatec, I just can't justify spending over $400 on a wheel.

GT2 was my favorite iteration of the franchise until GT4 came out. And while GT4 had a lot of cars, there were still quite a few left out that saddened me. Hopefully, GT5 will have all of the cars from GT4 and GT2.

I miss the sound the old Demio A-Spec used to make!

I'm cornfused, GT4 acts exactly like you described, used cars, different cars available on different days. Even with "only" 500 cars there's still plenty of slow crapboxes to play with.

i really dont like the fact that when you have a turbo car you cannot play with boost levels at all.... except for the original one. i loved being able to put a bigger turbo on the car, simply turn down boost for tire reasons but turn it back up for qualifying.