benzbaronDaryn wrote: Hit the backroads and you can have fun just cruising.
This. On the way home from the autocross this weekend, I decided I'd take the state-maintained two lane rather than the 4-6 lane interstate. I tend to fall into the rut of "gotta get there on time, no fooling around, no dawdling", it had been a LONG time since I'd done a long low-speed cruise. Really enjoyable.
When I lived in Pittsburgh, the MINI literally made my life better. For those 25 minutes in the morning and the 45 in the evening (backroads to avoid traffic, about the same amount of time, but no bumper to bumper) that car was just a joy.
I too got into hypermiling, especially on the way home. Coasting as much as possible, antipating. It was amazing how FUN just trying to maximise fuel economy took. You really have to think and anticipate everything. Plus, you can get amazing results. Just keeping the car clean (no extra weight) and looking ahead/coasting/anticipating, I realized an extra 4-7 mpg.
Now in Ohio, I get in the car and set the cruise to 72 and about 50 minutes later I'm at work. I miss that old commute...
jazzop wrote: I drive almost always at the edge of the performance envelope of my cars, with a few exceptions. My top speed is usually determined by the vehicles in front of me and whether I can get around them. Most people are unwilling to ride with me because they say it is "scary". But what people don't realize is that I keep my vehicles in tip-top shape, using higher quality parts and mechanical attention to detail that expand the performance envelope such that my driving is still within a reasonable operational risk matrix. With the exception of speed limits, I also follow every traffic rule and courtesy (e.g., turn signals for lane changes, remain out of left lane when possible). I really should have been born in Germany, as my driving is suited to the autobahn. All bets are off, however, when someone intentionally triggers my road rage by doing something asinine like slamming on their brakes in front of me. I won't incriminate myself here, but the rage situation has been quite intense on occasion. My cars are all set up and tuned for different purposes: the city traffic "autocrosser", the road-trip GT car, the antique Sunday driver, etc. In all cases, the only non-stock cosmetic appearance would be the high-performance tires and brake rotors. Everything else is either a hidden secret in the engine bay or under the chassis. Oh, the exhaust growl is also a giveaway. Because I derive pleasure from going fast and displeasure from going slow, I tolerate much higher levels of NVH than the average city street driver-- another reason people hate riding with me.
You sir, are doing it wrong.
In reply to Anti-stance:
I was the exact same way and neither you, or any judge, or my mother were going to tell me any different. (except for the road rage part) The only thing that really slowed me down was having a kid. It's funny how that will give you a completely different perspective on life.
But is this^^ guy more of a problem than stance guy?
jazzop wrote: I drive almost always at the edge of the performance envelope of my cars, with a few exceptions. My top speed is usually determined by the vehicles in front of me and whether I can get around them. Most people are unwilling to ride with me because they say it is "scary". But what people don't realize is that I keep my vehicles in tip-top shape, using higher quality parts and mechanical attention to detail that expand the performance envelope such that my driving is still within a reasonable operational risk matrix. With the exception of speed limits, I also follow every traffic rule and courtesy (e.g., turn signals for lane changes, remain out of left lane when possible). I really should have been born in Germany, as my driving is suited to the autobahn. All bets are off, however, when someone intentionally triggers my road rage by doing something asinine like slamming on their brakes in front of me. I won't incriminate myself here, but the rage situation has been quite intense on occasion. My cars are all set up and tuned for different purposes: the city traffic "autocrosser", the road-trip GT car, the antique Sunday driver, etc. In all cases, the only non-stock cosmetic appearance would be the high-performance tires and brake rotors. Everything else is either a hidden secret in the engine bay or under the chassis. Oh, the exhaust growl is also a giveaway. Because I derive pleasure from going fast and displeasure from going slow, I tolerate much higher levels of NVH than the average city street driver-- another reason people hate riding with me.
No sir. You would be have your lisence suspended in Germnay. While you can speed to your hearts content on the autobahn, a speed limit is a speed limit, period, no exceptions, no tolerance whatsoever.
Have you ever been to an autocross? Those folks are driving on the "edge of the performance envelope in their cars". Have you ever noticed how many cones are knocked over? Even in a controlled environment, even the best driver's cannot hold a car on the limit perfectly. When you throw in the intangibles encountered in the real world, you are destined for an "incident". I certainly hope you forgot a comma between "city traffic" and "autocrosser".
jazzop wrote: I drive almost always at the edge of the performance envelope of my cars, with a few exceptions. My top speed is usually determined by the vehicles in front of me and whether I can get around them. Most people are unwilling to ride with me because they say it is "scary". But what people don't realize is that I keep my vehicles in tip-top shape, using higher quality parts and mechanical attention to detail that expand the performance envelope such that my driving is still within a reasonable operational risk matrix. With the exception of speed limits, I also follow every traffic rule and courtesy (e.g., turn signals for lane changes, remain out of left lane when possible). I really should have been born in Germany, as my driving is suited to the autobahn. All bets are off, however, when someone intentionally triggers my road rage by doing something asinine like slamming on their brakes in front of me. I won't incriminate myself here, but the rage situation has been quite intense on occasion. My cars are all set up and tuned for different purposes: the city traffic "autocrosser", the road-trip GT car, the antique Sunday driver, etc. In all cases, the only non-stock cosmetic appearance would be the high-performance tires and brake rotors. Everything else is either a hidden secret in the engine bay or under the chassis. Oh, the exhaust growl is also a giveaway. Because I derive pleasure from going fast and displeasure from going slow, I tolerate much higher levels of NVH than the average city street driver-- another reason people hate riding with me.
Let me resort to what I used to tell the other "car people" in high school. Come to an autocross with me, and I'll pay your entry fee if you beat me. There are few things more sobering than losing to a teenager in an old BMW by 15 seconds.
In reply to jazzop:
Public roads are not for driving to the edge of your car's ability. Just your statement of "people are afraid to ride with me" shows your mentality. It appears you wear that as a badge of honor. I have known people with that mentality. You may think you are driving fast and have more ability, everyone else thinks you drive like an shiny happy person. Including the people that don't want to ride in the car with you.
In reply to jazzop:
+1 to Anti-stance.
It sounds to me like your excuse for not enjoying autocross is the lack of risk.
And so I ask: have you ever done any circuit racing?
Get yourself a car with bigger balls than the ones in your GRM garage, go try and take the Kink at Road America without braking or lifting, and call us back.
jazzop wrote: I drive almost always at the edge of the performance envelope of my cars, with a few exceptions. My top speed is usually determined by the vehicles in front of me and whether I can get around them. Most people are unwilling to ride with me because they say it is "scary". But what people don't realize is that I keep my vehicles in tip-top shape, using higher quality parts and mechanical attention to detail that expand the performance envelope such that my driving is still within a reasonable operational risk matrix. With the exception of speed limits, I also follow every traffic rule and courtesy (e.g., turn signals for lane changes, remain out of left lane when possible). I really should have been born in Germany, as my driving is suited to the autobahn. All bets are off, however, when someone intentionally triggers my road rage by doing something asinine like slamming on their brakes in front of me. I won't incriminate myself here, but the rage situation has been quite intense on occasion. My cars are all set up and tuned for different purposes: the city traffic "autocrosser", the road-trip GT car, the antique Sunday driver, etc. In all cases, the only non-stock cosmetic appearance would be the high-performance tires and brake rotors. Everything else is either a hidden secret in the engine bay or under the chassis. Oh, the exhaust growl is also a giveaway. Because I derive pleasure from going fast and displeasure from going slow, I tolerate much higher levels of NVH than the average city street driver-- another reason people hate riding with me.
Sounds like people hate driving around you as well. I know i would. Keep that bullE36 M3 off the public roads.
The two best things I ever did to (unintentionally) improve my street driving abilities and habits:
jazzop wrote: 2. I have been to autocrosses. I don't like them. They are artificial environments in which people knock down cones because there is no real risk in the consequences of doing so. I recognize the value of an autocross as a way to fine-tune one's skills and sort out vehicle settings, and I intend to participate in them more frequently. But they are like flying a simulator vice a real airplane. If you crash in a simulator, you reset and start over; in an airplane, the stakes are much higher. Similarly, is there the same stimulation to be found in arcade blackjack as there is in laying down your cash at a real table in a casino? I think not. I lose no sleep over whether you can record a faster time at an autocross, because the variable of risk acceptance is minimized there. If we have to drive a course from Newark to Brooklyn in the middle of the afternoon, I am pretty sure I will get there faster.
No, Auto-X is not a simulator. It is a controlled environment that does its best to minimize risks, but that doesn't mean you are working any less hard. It is more like rock climbing in a gym as opposed to rock climbing outside. Either way, you're still rock climbing. To use your card analogy, maybe it's more like a friendly poker tournament with a $20 buy-in as opposed to putting your life savings down in Vegas. There isn't a whole lot on the line, but fundamentally it's the same thing. Maybe there are some who crave the thrill of putting $5,000 on a hand of Black Jack or spin of the roulette wheel. I'd call that irresponsible.
Gambling with someone else's money (driving at the limits on the street where you can hurt someone else), is absolutely irresponsible.
Now, if auto-x isn't your thing. That's fine. I much prefer road courses, and especially wheel-to-wheel racing. But to say it isn't real racing or "just a simulator" is wrong.
In reply to jazzop:
Go back to your Honda style forum, you are talking to adults now. Your stupidity and immaturity will not be well received by GRM people, many of whom have actually driven fast cars.
Grow up kid.
I'll just say that anyone who thinks they drive a car on the street on the edge of its performance envelope is either driving a stock Yugo on 175 section width tires, or has no idea what the "edge of the performance envelope" is.
EDITED: Kenny's right.
jazzop wrote: I drive almost always at the edge of the performance envelope of my cars, with a few exceptions. My top speed is usually determined by the vehicles in front of me and whether I can get around them. Most people are unwilling to ride with me because they say it is "scary". But what people don't realize is that I keep my vehicles in tip-top shape, using higher quality parts and mechanical attention to detail that expand the performance envelope such that my driving is still within a reasonable operational risk matrix. With the exception of speed limits, I also follow every traffic rule and courtesy (e.g., turn signals for lane changes, remain out of left lane when possible). I really should have been born in Germany, as my driving is suited to the autobahn. All bets are off, however, when someone intentionally triggers my road rage by doing something asinine like slamming on their brakes in front of me. I won't incriminate myself here, but the rage situation has been quite intense on occasion. My cars are all set up and tuned for different purposes: the city traffic "autocrosser", the road-trip GT car, the antique Sunday driver, etc. In all cases, the only non-stock cosmetic appearance would be the high-performance tires and brake rotors. Everything else is either a hidden secret in the engine bay or under the chassis. Oh, the exhaust growl is also a giveaway. Because I derive pleasure from going fast and displeasure from going slow, I tolerate much higher levels of NVH than the average city street driver-- another reason people hate riding with me.
A+ Troll.
I refuse to believe anyone this careless/reckless could spell this well or formulate and type this coherently.
tuna55 wrote: I'll just say that anyone who thinks they drive a car on the street on the edge of its performance envelope is either driving a stock Yugo on 175 section width tires, or has no idea what the "edge of the performance envelope" is.
They're 145 and I've not actually had it running long enough to go to a wet empty parking lot and find all its limits.
Kenny_McCormic wrote:tuna55 wrote: I'll just say that anyone who thinks they drive a car on the street on the edge of its performance envelope is either driving a stock Yugo on 175 section width tires, or has no idea what the "edge of the performance envelope" is.They're 145 and I've not actually had it running long enough to go to a wet empty parking lot and find all its limits.
hehe
It does sound like fun
This thread got awesome.
He isn't jazzop, but he is jazzop's Georgian cousin:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pmeKWDJT-_Q
In the comments, it was noted that the driver was sent to jail for three years for his driving.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:nicksta43 wrote: I'm saying some people get off on driving. Some people get off on the engineering. Some people get off on wrenching. Some people get off on design. Some people get off on cosmetics.and some should just get off the road entirely. I do not love it all. Especially the jackholes in the giant lifted trucks. If they want an off road vehicle berkeleying keep it there. Alternatively... I am curiously drawn to that powder puff Fiat above. Maybe I'm ready to try Virgina Slims and buy some elastic jeans.
Agreed on all counts. Though I'd look pretty goddamned silly in "skinny" anything.
Anti-stance wrote:nicksta43 wrote:Agreed with everything in both of these quotes. There is a back road I drive home everyday in North Georgia that has little traffic and a lot of elevation change. Much like Road Atlanta but not as steep of grades. I try to get a speed where I use as little throttle and brake input to stay within 5 miles +/- of the speed limit. That's the fun I have. Also as beer baron stated, I reserve the right to make fun of stance cars as much as I want. When they hold up traffics to get over railroad tracks, potholes, and other E36 M3 in the road, I am going to not only point and laugh, I may let them know they are #1.Beer Baron wrote: As for me, I find fun in performance driving to set simple challenges for myself. Like, trying to cut the most perfectly smooth arc possible within the confines of my lane.That's similar to what I do. I try to be as smooth as possible all the time while trying to be as efficient as I can. Timing lights and staying off the brakes. Really concentrating on planning ahead and avoiding unnecessary slowing. All that can be done in a stock Yugo however. So what's the point of modding anything?
Big +1 on all counts. On the way home from Alpharetta yesterday, on a little off-shoot of 372 (runs from ballground to crabapple, since you're familiar with the area,) a kid in a "stanced" freakin cavalier jumped out in front of me. He got on the gas hard, but I still had to brake for him. Whatever, no big deal. I was doing the speed limit (45mph,) and he was probably doing 55+. I wasn't "racing" him, but I caught up to him on a little 90-ish degree kink, and I guess he took that as a sign that I was challenging him. We played cat and mouse at very reasonable speeds. We come over a hill and he had to STOP to get over a set of berkeleying train tracks that I would've hit at 45mph.
There's a little side road that connects 372 to the highway. No other cars around. He gets in the left lane and slows to about 15mph to take the turn, gets on the gas hard and pushes way out to the right lane. I hang back, in the right lane, and using the signal, late apex it. I think he may have literally E36 M3 himself when I passed him on the inside going 30mph faster than him. 
To answer the OP: That's about as crazy as I'll get. I had a Mustang go off in a ditch in front of me a few years ago, and realized that while I was driving at about 7/10ths and having fun, he was driving at 11/10ths and watching his mirrors. There's one back road that I take on the way home where I pretty much set the cruise at 10 over, and it's fun just like that. There's another one close to my house where a bunch of gravel always washes into this one intersection. I'll slide through there occasionally, if I'm 100% sure there's no one else around. That's about as crazy as I get on the street.
tuna55 wrote:Kenny_McCormic wrote:hehe It does sound like funtuna55 wrote: I'll just say that anyone who thinks they drive a car on the street on the edge of its performance envelope is either driving a stock Yugo on 175 section width tires, or has no idea what the "edge of the performance envelope" is.They're 145 and I've not actually had it running long enough to go to a wet empty parking lot and find all its limits.
Well, its not entirely stock with the 2" side exit thrush glass pack exhaust. Which makes it sound about 10x faster than it is, making it even more fun
I race a 945# car w/ about 170hp and full aero. It pulls 2+ lateral Gs cornering, and on the basis on lap times, is about the fastest thing that's not an open wheel car. You HAVE to drive at 9.99 tenths unless you're far enough ahead of the other cars in class that you can dial back the aggression.
You actually have to drive harder and faster than you probably want to.
So on the street I drive:
What's the common thing? you can flog any one of these w/o going to jail, and except the 'Taco they all get good gas mileage.
Slow car fast is absolutely the way to go.
"Stancetards" as they've been referred make for a larger market of wide, small, low offset wheels, and cheap coilover kits.
Also, be advised that many people who are concerned with the stance are their car are not all concerned about how people outside of the "stance" crowd view their car.
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