What Minivan (or Something Else)?

As per a previous thread, my '06 Chrysler T&C is too much of a rust bucket, and ready to be replaced. Discussed what we want to do about the fleet with the wife. She works from home and has an RX-8 as her DD. I have an S2000 as my 3-season daily.

The duties that we want a third vehicle to solve:

• Road trip vehicle for taking day trips and occasionally 6-7 hour drives to visit family
• Winter car for me. (S2000 has never seen salt, and I plan to keep it that way.)
• Occasional light hauling
  • Gym equipment, small furniture, other bulky items from FB Market
  • Wood and other limited building materials for light home improvement projects

Minivan seems like the obvious choice.

So what minivan will get - respectable highway MPG for trips, be comfortable and reliable, able to fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood, solid value?

Our budget is flexible, but I'm looking for value. Probably aiming for ~$15k, but I think anywhere from $10k-$25k could be reasonable.

Or should we consider a different option?

...

(Considering the option of more fuel efficient road trip vehicle and then renting a pickup or something when needing to haul... the biggest trip will be Columbus, OH to Alexandria, VA. Call it 850 miles round trip and say 4 trips per year. In a Honda Odyssey getting 28 mpg vs an Accord getting 35, we would only save about 25 total gallons of gas. At $5/gallon, that's only $125 extra per year. Having a vehicle on hand that can do the hauling duties of a minivan is worth more than $125.)

Odyssey or Sienna. Odyssey would pair better with the S2000 like a mildly aged red wine with some Yancy's fancy cheese. 

Hard to beat Chryslers when it comes to value minivans.  While I'm not planning to replace my '17 GC anytime soon, I have noticed used Pacificas are starting to dip down into your budget range.  My understanding is they drive a lot better than the 5th Gen GC models I've had. 

If it is big enough for your needs, you could probably buy the nicest Mazda5 in existence for $15K.  It can't handle 4x8 sheets of plywood, though.  8 foot lumber should fit, if you don't have a passenger in the front seat.

If you want something larger, I'd be split on getting a Sienna or a 5th Gen Grand Caravan.  The Sienna should be a tank, but you can get a lower mileage Caravan (or just get one cheaper).  Every independent repair shop should have plenty of experience working on the Dodge, too.

I think a newer Chrysler T&C is the droid you're looking for.  A quick Auto Trader search has 2011-2016 models well within your budget.  Could go even newer without stretching your budget much.  

I have mixed feelings about Dodge/Chrysler. I *really* liked the stow-and-go seating. I wasn't impressed with the build quality, but I gather the 5th generation is a LOT nicer than the 4th. I also wouldn't be getting another $6k beater.

DirtyBird222 said:

Odyssey or Sienna. Odyssey would pair better with the S2000 like a mildly aged red wine with some Yancy's fancy cheese. 

/thread

Honda is my go to but I am digging Toyota making the new Siennas hybrids.  Obviously, you aren't looking for new, but still a nice direction they are taking the people mover.  

If you go T&C or GC, get one at least 2012 or preferably newer.  The earlier years of those models had issues with undersized front brakes.  I believe by 2012 - and definitely by 2013 - Chrysler had stepped up and started putting in the larger brakes across the model line.

I love my 2012 T&C Limited.  It's got all the zoot, including heated second row, power stow-and-go third row, and 2 DVD screens.  Plus the sliding door windows go down (mostly) instead of just venting.  My niece has a similar (non-Limited) 2015 T&C and she couldn't be happier with it.

With the seats all stowed my T&C is an absolute cavern inside.

My sister has an ex-rental Pacifica, later teens but not sure of the exact year.  It's pretty nice to ride in, but I've never driven it.  As an ex-rental it's a bit, uh, Spartan inside, but you can probably find a higher trim without breaking the budget.

Pacifica is available in hybrid, but I have zero idea of the price point and availability on the used market.

[edit]  By all accounts, the Sienna is a nice vehicle, BUT:

• I really dislike the way the rear seats fold up against the back of the front seats.  Seems like it uses a lot of what should be cargo space.
   
• I have a hard time with Toyota's styling for the last decade or so.  That is of course subjective.

I think I'm going to take a trip over to Carmax this weekend and just play around with the seat stowing options on various minivans.

Seems like Honda, Toyota, and Chrysler are the obvious short list. No matter what, I'm pretty sure I'm looking 2013 or newer. Sienna also got a bump in highway MPG from then on.

Is this even a question? Which minivan was modified for track duty and put up better times than a Camaro? 

Which Minivan did Rutledge Wood of Top Gear fame dominate One Lap in?

What minivan can haul 4x8 sheets or 8 people with equal ease?

What minivan can be had with AWD and the sports package?

What minivan offers Toyota reliability and eye-catching looks? 

What minivan was designed by chief engineer Kazuo Mori, an avid autocrosser?

The Toyota Sienna SE. Anything less, is less. 

We bought our 2016 Kia Sedona off the lot.  Has had 70k trouble free miles put on it.  Wife uses it to haul kids and commute.  We take it on road trips.  Good power and handling for a minivan.  I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.  They seem to be pretty cheap right now thanks to the "they don't make em no more" discount. 

Long travel is one of the stated uses for this vehicle. That makes me wonder if a high mpg vehicle might be the right answer for this. 

That then makes me wonder if Prius (or similar) and utility trailer might be the answer?

1 1/4 hitch for Prius is plentiful at less than $200

Etrailer has at 2" available but at a ridiculous $364. But, it makes bikes and or storage boxes easier.

I've had a fairly loaded 2015 Sedona since new, and it's got just about 100k miles on it. In that time it's had a door repaired under warranty, a head gasket under warranty, a cracked timing cover under warranty, a torn CV boot under warranty. Still love the van, but not sure I'd recommend one for trouble free miles. Might have gotten better later in that generation, as this was the first year for that new body style. I've really enjoyed the heated/ventilated seats, and I find Android Auto to be 100% worth it.

I'd be really tempted to get a Voyager LXi though. That's the top-trim of the budget version of a pacifica. Still comes with stow-n-go seats, and should have good reliability and fewer doo dads to fail. Can get a shockingly new one in your budget (just under $25k):

Used 2021 Chrysler Voyager in Sacramento, CA | CarMax

Siennas are also pricey, even by Odyssey standards.

pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) said:

Is this even a question? Which minivan was modified for track duty and put up better times than a Camaro? 

I hope they nick-named it "Ayrton".

jmabarone said:

DirtyBird222 said:

Odyssey or Sienna. Odyssey would pair better with the S2000 like a mildly aged red wine with some Yancy's fancy cheese. 

/thread

Honda is my go to but I am digging Toyota making the new Siennas hybrids.  Obviously, you aren't looking for new, but still a nice direction they are taking the people mover.  

I know too many folks with newer Hondas and Toyotas that have had major issues to put them on par with Chrysler when it comes to minivans.  I honestly have zero faith in Honda or Toyota anymore. They've let quality slip while still riding the coat tails of that reputation. 

There's a reason Chrysler routinely sold more GC's than all other brands combined - often by a factor of 2x combined.  It's the one thing Chrysler does well.  Just buy the newest model your budget allows.  My '17 is a lot nicer than the '08 I had, but my '08 was also a bare-bones version with minimal options (base + stow & go and rear HVAC) compared to the '17 GT model with all the bells and whistles. 

The other advantage of the 5th Gen is it was hardly changed from 2008 to 2020.  So there are tons of them. Ton of them that every corner mechanic has seen. Tons of them so the aftermarket sells parts for them cheap. Tons of them that the aftermarket even sells upgrades for known issues (some of the factory plastic bits in the engine bay can be replaced with metal versions like the heater hoses and the oil filter housing). 

I know I sound like a fan boy, but the engineer in me can't make the numbers add up in favor of any other minivan than one of the Chrysler models. 

You need one of those $21k Ford Mavericks  (but sadly they don't seem to exist)

We've had a 2017 Kia Sedona since 2018. Drove it off the lot. It has had a couple of things done via recall. I installed the hitch myself. Did the 40k mile service (or maybe the 30k?) myself; I've found it very easy to work on. The only problem that we've had 

My only complaints with it are as follows: 

1. MPG could be better. I can get 24-25MPG if I keep it around 67-70mph. But I struggle to do that. I think they addressed that with the 2019 model.
2. Tire wear is pretty high, but I "feel like" that is common with minivans. 
3. I dislike the center console. They put it and the gear shift there to make it feel more like an SUV, but in doing so, also gave up one of the best parts about a minivan, which is the ability for mom to drop the console and easily climb back with kiddo.
4. The key fob is shaped in a way that you end up poking it with the other keys/detris in your pocket, which means that you may have unknowingly opened a door from the 2nd story bathroom while you were pulling down your pants to take a dump.
5. Apple Car Play can be really stupid at times. I am 99% sure this is not a Kia problem. 

I have fit 4x8 sheets of plywood in it, but they were standing up and angled. 4x4 fits very easily behind the 2nd row seats. The 2nd row seats are not easy to remove, but they have a great feature where they'll slide up and fold flat against the front row seats. It is extremely easy and probably 75% as good as Stow'n'Go, the biggest detriment to the Kia is giving up that storage capacity.

We really love this car. Personally, if I were buying today, I'd look at Toyota because hybrid, Pacifica PHEV because PHEV, and the Carnival (renamed Sedona). And we'd stop at Kia first.

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

I know I sound like a fan boy, but the engineer in me can't make the numbers add up in favor of any other minivan than one of the Chrysler models. 

If it were same year, same mileage, I'm sure I'd lean Japanese. But looking at what equal $$$ buys... it gets a newer and lower mileage Chrysler.

And stow-and-go is REALLY tough to beat, especially with how much more often I move stuff than people.

I'm sorry but this wins in my heart. 

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/news/does-honda-minivan-have-shot-becoming-ultimate-track-car-fastfriday/

The Odyssey and Sienna prioritize people over cargo. Removing, storing, and reinstalling 2nd row seats is a PITA. The Sienna doesn't even have a flat floor thanks to the AWD offering.

I actually prefer the speed and ease of the Sedona flip-and-fu... I mean... flip-and-fold 2nd row seats over all others, for converting between passenger and cargo modes. The 2nd row seats are also more comfortable than the stow-n-go, which IMHO makes it the best people and cargo combined. However it will not accept 4x8, so no dice here.

The Pacifica (non-hybrid) and GC/T&C with the 2nd row stow-n-go are the go-to minivans for people who prioritize cargo over people.

My two cents (that will be discounted to a quarter of a cent on this board lol) from owning both the Chrysler/Dodge minivans and a Odyssey:

I've put over 100K miles on two Chrysler minivans each, and that many miles on a Honda Odyssey. I'll never own another Honda again. The engineering behind how they go together and come apart should be a national embarrassment for Japan. The reliability has been worse that the Chrysler/Dodge vans. 
The Honda needs rings every 75K miles because of the oiling issue related to the cylinder deactivation. Honda knows about it and will usually cover it once out of warranty (as long as it's not too far out of warranty), but after that, you either rebuild it yourself or keep driving it hoping to get into an accident that totals it, but doesn't kill you. 

The power doors fail early, parts are $900 per door, and the replacement parts are not an improvement. They will fail again, it's a mechanical failure due to weak plastic. Simply removing the motors leaves you with doors that are very hard to open.

Power liftgate motor is made out of the same compressed graham cracker crumbs that the transmission internals are constructed from.  

The typical 4X8 sheet of anything that isn't flexible won't fit very well. The load opening is about 4'1" wide. that leaves 1/2" on either side for your fingers. BUT, that 4'1"opening is only that wide about a foot off the floor. You'll have to levitate the sheet in the van. Oh, you can remove the HEAVY middle row seats and fold the rear seats down, sure. But then the sheet of whatever you bought sits on the floor, BELOW the trim for the rear opening. I had to go buy more lumber to lay on the floor to keep my drywall from sitting below the trim. 

That opening width stays consistent up to the front of the rear row of seats. That means that sheet of something will rub against the trim panels, scoring them up terribly. 

Forget about bringing home 2X4's longer than 8'. You can't slide them under the middle or front seats. The Dodge could take a 10' or 12' board no problem, not the honduh.  Just last night I brought some peg board home. I had to put the drivers seat soo far forward that my (not Jeremy Clarskon big) gut was rubbing the steering wheel. That left the board pressing into the back of the seat AND the inside of the rear door.  

In short, if you don't like torque the Honda can move people around, though I hated it for long trips, I can't get comfortable to save my life. But if you want to haul stuff around, the Chrysler/Dodge twins are excellent, and they have the power to move stuff too.  

The 3.8 pushrod V6's in the Chryco minivans I had only fell 1/2 mpg shy of the OHC Honda motor. Gawd that thing has no torque either. 

*cough* AHEM *cough*

Getting really nit-picky...

Any thoughts on differences between Pacifica, Grand Caravan, and Town and Country? I am finding Pacificas in my price range...

In reply to Beer Baron :

I've driven both Pacificas and Grand Caravans, and the Pacifica was definitely a nicer place to be.  When they were selling side by side, though, it seemed like the Pacifica had more reliability issues.  I'd assume some of those are resolved, but I have no idea what model years would be the best to choose.