What Minivan (or Something Else)?

I'm looking very seriously at this Pacifica. I'm guessing it's an ex-rental stripper, but I think I'm fine with that. Not sure if I'd like nicer seats though...

Edit: never mind. The second row is a bench and NOT stow-n-go. So forget that.

In reply to Beer Baron :

I'm not sure what the current climate is but consider buying direct from the rental companies.

My experience...

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/the-next-big-thing-19-grand-caravan/173162/page1/

Beer Baron said:

I'm looking very seriously at this Pacifica. I'm guessing it's an ex-rental stripper, but I think I'm fine with that. Not sure if I'd like nicer seats though...

Edit: never mind. The second row is a bench and NOT stow-n-go. So forget that.

That's how I ended up with my '17 GC GT.  I went to the dealer to look at a new 2018 Pacifica, only to find out it was the L model with the bench seat.  In hindsight, for as often as I carry people (near-on never), I could have bought the Pacifica, removed the bench seat and then had nice sub-floor storage cavities.  The cavities are still there - the seats just don't fold into them.   I have occasionally considered removing the rear seats from my van and fabricating a floor with hatches.  Basically creating my own Ram C/V. 

I do not disagree with the comments about favoring the Chrysler for the utility features, but that is where my life is.  I carry cargo far more often than people.

Look on car - parts.com for seats that will likely bolt right in. Probably $200.

In your shoes, I'd look pretty hard at a Pacifica.  I like how our Odyssey drives, but I love how our rented Pacifica drove.  I liked the motor, suspension, and brakes of the Pacifica far more than our Odyssey.  Odysseys in your price range will likely have issues that will need to be worked around or fixed.  That's fine for a vehicle you use every day, but when it's an occasional hauler, I think any issue will get old fast.  Honda parts are plentiful, but I wouldn't categorize them as cheap.

Here's my rundown of Odyssey problem areas (I've owned an '05 and a '17, the generation changeover was in 2011, and again in 2018):

• Bluetooth integration is a mess, Honda hadn't figured out how to do it right in either our '17 Odyssey or our '16 Pilot.
• Odyssey transmissions are not fantastic.  They require a 3x drain and fill sequence (with a short highway drive in between), and then most folks do a single drain/fill once per year.  I added an aftermarket transmission cooler on our '17 and that brought the temps down by a considerable amount.  The Honda fluid tends to break down pretty quickly in this application, I've switched over to Valvoline MaxLife ATF and like how the cars shifts with that (it's also cheaper).
• Cylinder de-activation (VCM in Honda-speak) is another issue.  I added an aftermarket device that keeps it in 6cyl mode all the time, and didn't notice a mileage hit.  There was a pretty big campaign for all of the piston/ring issues on the '11-14 models, but I've seen instances of issues in the later models, as well.  When you use the 3cyl mode, the active motor mounts tend to wear more quickly, and those aren't cheap, either.
• Spool (VTEC) valves tend to leak, the fix is to buy a new valve and use the new gasket.  When they leak, they leak all over the alternator, causing premature replacement.
• Power Sliding doors are fun.  You can actually remove the motors and cables and they're not awful to operate (we've been using one in that mode for nearly a year).  I've had actuators go out, a cable (and two replacements) that has snapped, etc.  I have a whole new motor waiting to go in (only way to get an OEM cable), but I've had that door (and the interior) apart 3-4 times already, so I'm not looking forward to doing it again.
• Brakes are relatively undersized, if I bed them in they work pretty well, if you don't bed them in they'll typically warp at the first real use on the highway.
• My '17 was high-mileage when we bought it (193k in 3 years), it had the following leaks (all have been fixed):
  • ATF transmission lines to the radiator
  • Valve cover gaskets
  • Axle seals

On the plus side, there's a lot of info out there for troubleshooting/fixing these.  It has a ton of room, is comfortable for passengers, and gets very good mileage on the highway (I've gotten in the high 20s loaded with all 6 of us and cargo).

Watch the condition of whatever minivan you purchase, they tend to be used hard and put away dirty, like soiled diaper dirty.  The ideal purchase is off of a grandparent type who doesn't haul kids every day and actually takes care of it.

John Welsh said:

In reply to Beer Baron :

I'm not sure what the current climate is but consider buying direct from the rental companies.

My sister bought an ex-rental Pacifica.  I think it was a Hertz, but don't take that as gospel.

It's pretty  - nay, very - basic inside.  The seats are pretty hard.

Beer Baron said:

I'm looking very seriously at this Pacifica. I'm guessing it's an ex-rental stripper, but I think I'm fine with that. Not sure if I'd like nicer seats though...

Edit: never mind. The second row is a bench and NOT stow-n-go. So forget that.

Did you read the Carfax for this car, included in the dealership listing?  It seems to have been in two front end collisions.  

John Welsh said:

Look on car - parts.com for seats that will likely bolt right in. Probably $200.

Black leather second rows in Indy for $150 each.  

John Welsh said:

Beer Baron said:

I'm looking very seriously at this Pacifica. I'm guessing it's an ex-rental stripper, but I think I'm fine with that. Not sure if I'd like nicer seats though...

Edit: never mind. The second row is a bench and NOT stow-n-go. So forget that.

Did you read the Carfax for this car, included in the dealership listing?  It seems to have been in two front end collisions.  

That certainly explains why that deal seemed too good to be true.

In the price range I'm looking, I'm seeing 2017 Pacificas, but I'm seeing reviews that year has reliability and maintenance issues. I think a '19-'20 Pacifica would be great, but more than what we want to spend on a third car.

I think that has us looking at $14k-$18k for a '15+ T&C or GC, or possibly a '14+ Sienna. But I think ~$15k for a Chrysler with 80k miles is going to be better than a Toyota with 120k.

Just in case you consider...  Do not go near the last generation of Nissan Quest.  Aside from being the shortest of all the "full size" minivans, it too is saddled with the decidedly unreliable Nissan CVT trans.   

In this old thread, near the bottom of page one I go into detail about the Grand Caravan American Value Package, AVP (stripper model) and what it doesn't have.  

TLDR: AVP good if the intention is to haul cargo.  Bad (less good) if the intention is to haul people.

For Mopar vans, use a site like this to get the original widow sticker.  Helps for being sure exactly what options the vehicle has.  

John's post about the AVP reminded me!  If buying a Caravan, make sure it has rear HVAC! We looked at one with 2nd and 3rd row seats, but with no rear HVAC!

Where do people look for private-party vehicles these days? FB Market seems to have replaced Craigslist, but the UI isn't great.

Beer Baron said:

Where do people look for private-party vehicles these days? FB Market seems to have replaced Craigslist, but the UI isn't great.

Unfortunately, FBM is pretty much it.  The UI for marketplace is a bit more usable on a desktop computer than it is on any mobile platform I've tried.

This one in Columbus MIGHT be nice, if the listing is real.  My cautions are that the pictures (snow) are old and it still hasn't sold???

Seller looks to be a Ukrainian girl which seems to really just be a small dealer with many used cars listed.  Probably bought the car at auction.  Be sure to clarify and verify if the miles are true (just 45k.)  The ad does not say rebuilt but it still could be.    

2017 GT model (loaded) w/45k asking $13k

Seems like there might be some wear on the drivers lower cushion bolster.  That seems unlikely for 45k miles.  That is one of my suspicions. 

In reply to John Welsh :

I saw that. Looked at the profile, and it looks sketchy AF.

I don't get this whole "it's a stripper ergo was a rental" thinking.  I rent exclusively vans for my work from Hertz.  Ive probably had 50.  TC's, Pacifica's, GC's, GT's, R/T's, whatever Nissan calls theirs with the CVT trans, and current as I write this, a Sienna.  Some of these have been fully loaded.  I even had one with limo lights.  Others, like my current Sienna, have been stripped down versions.  I just depends on the luck of the draw.  I don't think rental companies, at least not Hertz, are buying stripped down cars anymore.  It seems like they're going to the dealer auctions to get low mile stuff just like everybody else.  
 

My take on the vans is that you can't go wrong with the Pentastar powered StoNGo Mopars.  They're solid.  The Sienna's 3.5 V6 sure is a runner though - but the lack of StoNGo would put me off if buying.

A 401 CJ said:

I don't get this whole "it's a stripper ergo was a rental" thinking.

Not all birds are ducks, but all ducks are birds.

Not all rental cars are stripper trims, but it seems like stripper trim cars most frequently go to rental companies.

I am currently leaning strongly in the direction of '17+ Grand Caravan SXT (high trim with 2nd row stow-n-go). I really like the idea of the Pacifica, but it sounds like there were frequent quality issues with '17's and '18s. '19-20 Pacificas are above my target price. Voyagers don't have 2nd row stow-n-go.

As much as I'd like the better fuel economy of the 9-speed transmission in the Pacifica, but I suspect that will be outweighed by the reliability of the 6-speed in the GC/T&C.

My Hertz, Mopar van is a loaded model, GT. They also had many mid model STXs.

The Pacifica launched in 2017 and took things upscale and up-price. Id wager that 95% of all Grand Caravan sales from 2017 -2021 (end of run) started with rental fleets.

Thia morning I moved a washer and dryer set, top load.  Vehicle options were Super Duty, Suburban, or Mopar van  Lowest load height made the Mopar van the clear winner.

If you like the newer Pacifica but don't like the prices, don't forget to check out the 2020+ Chrysler Voyager. The Pacifica based replacement for the Grand Caravan price-point.

Edit: didn't notice you did mention them in passing. They were available with second row stow and go, when I was looking nearly all I found had it.

In reply to newrider3 :

This is what I was going to say. Last year we ended up in a pinch and had to buy a minivan in a hurry (as in, I got back from a work trip and had one complete day before leaving with 5 kids to the outer banks!).  I ended up with a 2020 Voyager with 55k that I paid 28,800 for (I think it was).

I'm not sure what the difference between it an a Pacifica is except for no automatic climate control or high beams.

It's got leather, stow-n-go, rear ac, car-play/Android -Auto, auto dimming & heated mirrors, etc.

It was about 3k less than comparable Pacificas.

It knocks back around 27-28 on the highway, about 22 around town.

newrider3 said:

If you like the newer Pacifica but don't like the prices, don't forget to check out the 2020+ Chrysler Voyager. The Pacifica based replacement for the Grand Caravan price-point.

 

Edit: didn't notice you did mention them in passing. They were available with second row stow and go, when I was looking nearly all I found had it.

Huh. What I saw said they had 2nd row buckets, but that they weren't stow-n-go.

Saw one on my radar that looks nice. It's $20k, which is the top of the budget, but I think would be worth the premium.

In reply to Beer Baron :

From what I've read, the base L model didn't get stow-n-go while LX and LXi did. Most I saw for sale locally were LXi model which was apparently fleet only so likely ex-rental.

Does anyone have anecdotal evidence on the reliability of '17-'20 Chrysler Pacifica/Voyager? I'm most concerned about potential transmission issues. It seems like the 9-speeds might be a double-edged sword. Getting 28mpg highway is very appealing though...

I will almost certainly get a 1 month Consumer Reports subscription and see what they say about various makes/models/years I'm considering.

Weighing the merits of options like:

• 2020 Voyager with 76k odo for $20k
• 2017 Grand Caravan with 85k odo for $15k
• 2020 Grand Caravan with 76k odo for $18.5k
• 2016 Town and Country with 85k odo for $16k
• 2015 Sienna with 90k odo for $17.5k
• Any number of 2017 Pacificas with 85k-ish odo for ~$17k

Although, the right answer is almost certainly to go to the dealership with a bunch of those options and try them out. And to really get my wife's opinion.

I think the order I listed those in is probably the order of what I'd pick.

Back when we were looking, one of the things my wife wanted was a heated steering wheel. Those were standard for the top of the line GC and T&C, so we shopped those. Ended up getting a new loaded Pacifica Hybrid instead because, at the time, they were running about $10k off MSRP plus the tax rebate. 

If I had to do it now I'd probably do the highly optioned but low miles GC, given what prices are on new vans. Or try to find the lowest priced new/slightly used Hybrid Sienna