wait, someone listened to a politician?
I would advise against that
wait, someone listened to a politician?
I would advise against that
oldsaw wrote:ignorant wrote: Krugman sumed it up best today. "And here we are: Social Security still stands, and health reform — imperfect, compromised, but real — has happened."Krugman was awarded a prize funded by the profits of the inventor of WMDs. Perhaps it's appropriate since he (Krugman) advocates an economic equivalent?
and it would be awesome if they were like WMD's, cause all the bad stuff you were saying won't be found in about 5 years, when it proves to be a good policy.
Nobody said change was bad. This "reform" bill, however, is.
No, everyone just forgot to ask WHAT he wanted to change and what he wanted to change things to. Minor slip up I'm sure.
Social Security was started as a program to supplement, not replace, good ol' savings and planning ahead. It turned into an entitlement (just mention 'means testing' and see what kinds of screeching you hear!) with no real thought given to the explosion of the number of aging vs the shrinking number of working citizens to pay into the system and is now headed straight to insolvency. Medicare and Medicaid, ditto.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124212734686110365.html
ObamaCare as it sits now it will be another ditto. Thanks, Congress. Keep the change.
Now J, you know they are leaving you the change. It's the rest of it they want to take.
ignorant wrote:oldsaw wrote:and it would be awesome if they were like WMD's, cause all the bad stuff you were saying won't be found in about 5 years, when it proves to be a good policy.ignorant wrote: Krugman sumed it up best today. "And here we are: Social Security still stands, and health reform — imperfect, compromised, but real — has happened."Krugman was awarded a prize funded by the profits of the inventor of WMDs. Perhaps it's appropriate since he (Krugman) advocates an economic equivalent?
You pilloried the government when you disagreed on one subject, but now champion the government because its' policy agrees with yours.
Do you still have the medals you pinned on your own chest, too?
racerfink wrote: So, it won't do the ONE thing that Pelosi and the Left have claimed it will do....great!
any time Nancy Pelosi's plastic grin is as wide as it was last night the taxpayers should be clutching at their wallet and the Constitution.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:carguy123 wrote: What I want to know is what it will take to overturn it after November when they can no longer just vote their pet projects in.A well armed militia?
Time to organize the Brown Coats to fight those purple belly bastards?
now waits for someone to get the reference
rebelgtp wrote:Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:Time to organize the Brown Coats to fight those purple belly bastards? *now waits for someone to get the reference*carguy123 wrote: What I want to know is what it will take to overturn it after November when they can no longer just vote their pet projects in.A well armed militia?
Well, I looked it up on google and still don't get it. I must have missed the movie/book.
rebelgtp wrote:Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:Time to organize the Brown Coats to fight those purple belly bastards? *now waits for someone to get the reference*carguy123 wrote: What I want to know is what it will take to overturn it after November when they can no longer just vote their pet projects in.A well armed militia?
MrJoshua wrote:rebelgtp wrote: Time to organize the Brown Coats to fight those purple belly bastards? *now waits for someone to get the reference*
golf clap
After reading http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319 , I'm somewhat less upset. It's a lot less imperfect than I thought it would be. It's still about as clunky as running Win3.1 in a DOS box in an OS/2 emulator over Linux.
I feel the need for a spot of Tea.
Knurled wrote: It's still about as clunky as running Win3.1 in a DOS box in an OS/2 emulator over Linux.
That just makes my head hurt....
MrJoshua wrote:rebelgtp wrote:Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:Time to organize the Brown Coats to fight those purple belly bastards? *now waits for someone to get the reference*carguy123 wrote: What I want to know is what it will take to overturn it after November when they can no longer just vote their pet projects in.A well armed militia?
"We are just too pretty for God to let us die."
oldsaw wrote:ignorant wrote:You pilloried the government when you disagreed on one subject, but now champion the government because its' policy agrees with yours. Do you still have the medals you pinned on your own chest, too?oldsaw wrote:and it would be awesome if they were like WMD's, cause all the bad stuff you were saying won't be found in about 5 years, when it proves to be a good policy.ignorant wrote: Krugman sumed it up best today. "And here we are: Social Security still stands, and health reform — imperfect, compromised, but real — has happened."Krugman was awarded a prize funded by the profits of the inventor of WMDs. Perhaps it's appropriate since he (Krugman) advocates an economic equivalent?
so I need to be more binary.. got it.
I'll simplify what I believe based upon the fact that it confuses you.
I really am getting tired of all the "fox news/glenn beck libretarians" that are popping up. Go on, ride the bandwagon now. It wasn't an issue with them when someone else was spending their money at a massive pace, or more importantly when things like Habeas corpus were suspended.... but.... touch their wallet and boy look at the "patriots" coming out of the woodwork.
I'm floundering this thread hard, because you guys make me sad.. Infact you're nearly the definition of the "sheeple" you rant and rave about...
( 1st guy to post, but I was this before that and all those other people are posers comment, gets a cookie)
Bobzilla wrote: I'll take the Bacon, the wife will take the cookies.
You aren't allowed to eat bacon anymore. I don't want to have to bear the burden of your health services that will occur because of your bacon addiction.
That's it Iggy, take the high road. It's obvious all us poor dumb bastards are beneath you. 
BTW, I don't watch either one of those programs. I just read a lot.
ignorant wrote: I really am getting tired of all the "fox news/glenn beck libretarians" that are popping up. Go on, ride the bandwagon now. It wasn't an issue with them when someone else was spending their money at a massive pace, or more importantly when things like Habeas corpus were suspended.... but.... touch their wallet and boy look at the "patriots" coming out of the woodwork. I'm floundering this thread hard, because you guys make me sad.. Infact you're nearly the definition of the "sheeple" you rant and rave about... ( 1st guy to post, but I was this before that and all those other people are posers comment, gets a cookie)
Ig, It was absolutely an issue for many of us (myself included_ when the republicans and Bush were in power doing the same crap. I didn't vote for McCain, either, for that very reason. You almost make my point for me as you point out explicitly that you're talking about libertarians, who, as even you might notice, are not republicans.
eMailed to me by my congressman, Mike Rogers yesterday:
As you know, last night the U.S. House of Representatives cast one of the most important votes in American history. Nothing is more personal than the relationship between an American family and their doctor. As your Representative in Congress, I want you to know I listened carefully to the tens of thousands of you who took the time to call, email, or ask me a question on my telephone townhalls or at a coffee house throughout the district. Whether you support or oppose this massive healthcare bill, your participation in your government has been invigorating to me and is the only way our Representative democracy can properly function. After carefully reviewing this 2,409 page bill, I believe to my core it will make our health care system worse, not better. For me, this is not about politics or scoring short-term points, this about an unacceptable transformation in the relationship between the American people and their government. After spending $1 trillion, cutting Medicare by $523 billion, raising taxes by $569 billion, requiring every American to buy health insurance or face jail time, and creating more than 100 new federal boards, commissions and bureaucracies, there will still be 23 million Americans who have no health insurance. I believe we can do better. Perhaps the most troubling part about the health care bill is, in a ploy intended to secure the votes they needed, Democrat leaders have pitted one group of Americans against another. The popular Medicare Advantage program is essentially eliminated in this bill, unless you live in Florida where Florida Senator Bill Nelson secured an exception for his state. So if you have a Medicare Advantage plan in Florida, you are safe, but if you have one in Michigan and you like it, too bad, because it's gone. Another provision creates a $5 billion slush fund to help union members pay for increases in their health insurance premiums that Democrat leaders know are coming. So if you are a union member, you can get help paying for your increased premiums, if you are not, tough luck. If yo! ! u are longshoreman, you have a special deal. If you are a doctor in North Dakota, you have a special deal. Yet, if you are a middle class family who wakes up every day and plays by the rules and you have earned your health insurance coverage as part of your employment, there seems to be no special deal for you. I spoke about the health care bill during debate this weekend; these speeches can be viewed here and here. It is no wonder that physicians groups representing more than half a million doctors oppose this bill. Employers and manufacturers oppose this bill. The U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops oppose this bill. The Veterans of Foreign Wars oppose this bill. And small businesses oppose this bill. Yet, I certainly know that just saying "no" is not an acceptable or responsible approach to helping the 15 percent of Americans who have no health insurance or for the other 85 percent who are seeing huge increases in their monthly premiums. The status quo is indeed not working. That is why I have proposed serious solutions that would cover millions of Americans and lower premiums without the government getting in between you and your doctor. Those ideas can be found here. Saturday, I offered 15 amendments to the Democrats' health care bill in an effort to make it better. Unfortunately, none of the following amendments were allowed a vote by Democrat leaders: · No Medicare Cuts. Strikes all $523 Billion in Medicare cuts from Senate bill. · Saves Medicare Advantage. Requires the Secretary of Health and Human Services to certify that no seniors will lose their current Medicare Advantage plans. · Protect Social Security. Requires any new Social Security revenue to be used for benefits, not new entitlement spending. · Keep the plan you like. Allows all health plans used by families today to be considered acceptable coverage. · Health Insurance Competition: Forces insurance companies to compete across state lines. · Help For Americans With Pre-existing Conditions: Strengthens state high risk pools so that they can provide health insurance for Americans with pre-existing conditions. · Help for Small business: Creates Association Health Plans that allow small businesses to pool their resources and buy more affordable insurance. · Ban Rationing. Prevents "comparative effectiveness" research from being used to ration or deny care. · No Tax increases. Strikes all job-killing tax increases from the bill. · No New Employer Mandates #1. Strikes the employer health insurance mandate from the Senate bill. · No New Employer mandate #2. Prohibits employer mandate from going into effect if national unemployment is over 10%. · No New Employer mandate #3. Exempts from mandate employers in states with unemployment rate above 10%. · No Device tax: Eliminates the medical device tax, covering everything from bed pans to heart stents, from the bill. · Protects Health Savings Accounts:. Requires Health Savings Accounts to be considered acceptable coverage. · Student loans. Strikes all provision related to the government takeover of student loans. Finally, while Michigan struggles to create jobs, the only jobs this health care bill will create are at the IRS. It is estimated that 16,500 new IRS agents will have to be hired to collect the $569 billion in new taxes on everything from heart stents to so-called "Cadillac" health insurance plans that were earned by working families. You sent me to Washington to fight for you. I listened to your suggestions and concerns and weighed the positive and negative effects of this 2,409 page bill and came to the conclusion that we can and must do better. Sincerely, Mike Rogers Member of Congress
Obviously, the powers that be are still not happy with this bill as well.
tuna55 wrote: Ig, It was absolutely an issue for many of us (myself included_ when the republicans and Bush were in power doing the same crap. I didn't vote for McCain, either, for that very reason. You almost make my point for me as you point out explicitly that you're talking about libertarians, who, as even you might notice, are not republicans.
I don't think he's talking about Libertarians, he's talking about "Libertarians". I don't know if you've noticed, but it's become rather chic to label oneself a libertarian, and it seems every neo-con is grabbing the ball and running with it.
A portion of the email that was sent to me from a corporate mucky muck.
As you heard from Angela Braly earlier today, the US House of Representatives voted to pass the Reconciliation Act of 2010 late last night, with a 220-211 vote. The Senate will take up the reconciliation bill this week. In the meantime, President Obama plans to sign the Patient Protection and Affordability Care Act into law on Tuesday, March 23. The new law will significantly change the health care landscape and the way in which we operate. Throughout the reform discussion, our State Plan Presidents and many of our associates were actively involved in providing feedback to our public officials – we are disappointed that the legislation does not do enough to reduce cost, or improve quality. We continue to believe that cost and quality are two important elements to building a system that will help move our country on a sustainable path to providing affordable coverage for all Americans.
16vCorey wrote:tuna55 wrote: Ig, It was absolutely an issue for many of us (myself included_ when the republicans and Bush were in power doing the same crap. I didn't vote for McCain, either, for that very reason. You almost make my point for me as you point out explicitly that you're talking about libertarians, who, as even you might notice, are not republicans.I don't think he's talking about Libertarians, he's talking about "Librarians". I don't know if you've noticed, but it's become rather chic to label oneself a librarian, and it seems every neo-con is grabbing the ball and reading with it.
Fixxorred
RX Reven' wrote:Cotton wrote: Anytime Pelosi has so a huge smile on her face you should be very afraid.She’s had so many face lifts that when she smiles, she gets a beard.
LOL!!!! Or a landing strip....
iceracer wrote: The Republicans did not even try to offer an alternative. This partisinship has to end. Time for the voters to step up and make some changes.
I'm not sure I agree.
What you mean is that Republicans did not even try to offer an alternative for a National health care plan. I think their point was they didn't think a National health care plan was a good idea. Their alternative was NOT a National health care plan.
I'm not siding with them. The whole thing was crazy.
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