Deleted -- too much off-topic rambling.
Deleted -- too much off-topic rambling.
poopshovel wrote:zomby woof wrote:We've got about 10 - 50 million people (depending on how you skew the data to serve your political needs,) I'd abso berkeleying lutely LOVE to send your way! And unlike most of your 'new immigrants' most of these ones (give or take the 13 - 18 million who were never citizens of this country in the first place,) speak english, and don't run around screaming "Praise Allah! Jihad!" It's a WIN-WIN!!!93celicaGT2 said: You don't want to see what would happen if the insurance companies didn't existI'm living the dream.... in Canada
Do you mean immigrants to America, or uninsured Americans?
Joey
joey48442 wrote:poopshovel wrote:Do you mean immigrants to America, or uninsured Americans? Joeyzomby woof wrote:We've got about 10 - 50 million people (depending on how you skew the data to serve your political needs,) I'd abso berkeleying lutely LOVE to send your way! And unlike most of your 'new immigrants' most of these ones (give or take the 13 - 18 million who were never citizens of this country in the first place,) speak english, and don't run around screaming "Praise Allah! Jihad!" It's a WIN-WIN!!!93celicaGT2 said: You don't want to see what would happen if the insurance companies didn't existI'm living the dream.... in Canada
10 - 50 million = number of uninsured, depending on how you skew the data to serve your political needs. On the high end, there's the frightening "50 million," which thee Obama simply 'rounded up' from 45 million. The 45 million included uninsured people living in the United States illegally, and also included young people who didn't feel they needed health coverage (did you go out and buy a policy when you were 18?) and people who could easily afford coverage, but chose not to purchase it, as well as people who had been without coverage for less than a year, but planned on purchasing it in the next year, and also did not include people who were eligible for Medicare/Medicaid, but chose not to enroll (I was in that boat for a long time) bringing some estimates AS LOW AS 10 million 'CHRONICALLY' uninsured.
The 13 -18 million (depending on whether or not you include the children of people living in the U.S. illegally) was referring to people living in the U.S. illegally. Though I should've checked my numbers first. Apparently roughly 1 million have 'self-deported' in the last couple years due to the lack of work. The good news for them is that they were able to reap the benefits of free healthcare and welfare while they were here, enabling them to send stacks of cash back to whatever third-world E36 M3 hole they came from.
In reply to poopshovel:
so, to get this straight, you want me, an uninsured American, to move out of the country?
Joey
MrJoshua wrote:SVreX wrote:38yo non smoker with mild asthma as my only health concern. BCBS of Florida Blue Options BC 090 BS 590 $250 deductible in network $750 out of network Coinsurance (they pay) 80% in network, 60% out of network Max out of pocket $2500 in network, $5000 out of network Max lifetime benefit $5,000,000 Well child Coinsurance (they pay) 80% no benefit maximum Emergency room deductible $2500 (which quite intentionally is the same as my max out of pocket so after $2500 I am 100% covered) Outpatient/inpatient/specialist/labs/physician visits standard $250/$750 deductible and 80% in network 60% out of network coinsurance with $2500 max out of pocket.MrJoshua wrote: $37 a month here Mitchell, and im ooooooooooooold compared to you.Please tell more.
Do they sell out of state?
joey48442 wrote: In reply to poopshovel: so, to get this straight, you want me, an uninsured American, to move out of the country? Joey
Are you uninsured by choice or because you cannot/will not afford the cost?
If you "cannot" afford coverage, hope the reform bill includes you as one who is qualified to receive a subsidy - courtesy of those who "can". If the pre-determined limits exclude you from any subsidies, you're going to pay one way or another. You will pay a penalty if you "can" afford coverage but choose not to and then spend even more money when/if you need coverage.
As far as moving out of the country, that's your choice. My sincere apologies for the following snarkiness, but, one less person who demands entitlement to something they were never guaranteed might be a good thing. Or, you can stay, man-up and pay-up, and fight for the things you believe in.
Hopefully, you'll be inspired by the history and committment of ideals that led to the drafting and adopting of the Constitution. If you believe the "rule of man" ; trumps "the rule of law", or vice versa, stick around and enjoy the fight.
joey48442 wrote: In reply to poopshovel: so, to get this straight, you want me, an uninsured American, to move out of the country? Joey
Don't feel bad.
We'll take you. We're like that.
Just to lighten up this thread a little bit....
No matter what happens with this health care mess,
America is still the best country in the world, and Canada will still be America's hat. :)
zomby woof wrote:joey48442 wrote: In reply to poopshovel: so, to get this straight, you want me, an uninsured American, to move out of the country? JoeyDon't feel bad. We'll take you. We're like that.
Ann Coulter may disagree, if you gave her the opportunity.
NYG95GA wrote: This is not that new. A wise Frenchman wrote about the new American government 175 years ago.. "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, "Democracy in America" - 1835
Stole that one, Thanks!
Also, now that they control health care, who determines what is detrimental to your health. Do they ban cigarettes? Alcohol? Racing? Riding horses? Living in a house that's too big? If you control heath care, you control everything. You can ban anything you want if it goes against the common good at that point. And let's say you trust this administration, who's to say the next one is as honest?
Right now, you have the choice of dumping your health care for whatever reason, those days are over. Now you are stuck with it or a govt. run option.
As for Canada, next time you see Challenge Pro Driver Alan McCrispin, ask him about his wife. She's Canadian and her father is was a doctor. Scary stories. They moved to the US to move as far away from that system as they could.
oldsaw wrote: My sincere apologies for the following snarkiness, but, one less person who demands entitlement to something they were never guaranteed might be a good thing.
I don't see where he's "demanding entitlement." If he were saying he wants free healthcare coverage NOW that YOU pay for monthly, maybe. But I don't see that at all, any more than SVrex demanded entitlement when he said there were years when he chose to cut back on insurance, rather than other expenses.
It's only demanding entitlement if he's using it and doesn't want to pay for it.
oldsaw wrote: Ann Coulter may disagree, if you gave her the opportunity.
Her name has been on the radio all day. Who is she (and what does that mean)?
Chris_V wrote:oldsaw wrote: My sincere apologies for the following snarkiness, but, one less person who demands entitlement to something they were never guaranteed might be a good thing.I don't see where he's "demanding entitlement." If he were saying he wants free healthcare coverage NOW that YOU pay for monthly, maybe. But I don't see that at all, any more than SVrex demanded entitlement when he said there were years when he chose to cut back on insurance, rather than other expenses. It's only demanding entitlement if he's using it and doesn't want to pay for it.
"Demanding" privelege/entitlement is a literary license I may have taken out of context. Joey's response might further explain his postion(s) and either placate or fuel the debate.
In reply to Chris_V:
earlier in the post, he mentioned that if he didn't have it and didn't want it, thats fine, if he doesn't have it, can't/won't pay for it and expects someone to give it to him, that's not fine
zomby woof wrote:oldsaw wrote: Ann Coulter may disagree, if you gave her the opportunity.Her name has been on the radio all day. Who is she (and what does that mean)?
You have a computer, a radio and presumably TV.
Do some research.
I cannot understand you folks who are blaming insurance companies for the high cost of medical care. I go to the hospital and get an MRI, the hospital bill is $2,000 or more. Insurance pays out much less, I pay a relatively small portion and the hospital says OK. If I didn't have insurance I would be stuck with the full amount and would likely have to pre-pay. I had a 15 minute procedue to remove a small tumor from my bladder, First hospital bill was almost 20K. Final was around 3K. Seems to me the insurance company (mine is BC/BS) has lowered my costs.
One problem I see if the costs at hospitals is they all want to have the latest greatest equipment. Used to be only one at a time could have an MRI, CT or whatever. They cost several million dollars and are "out of date" in a few years. Nothing wrong, with them, just not new with all the frills. I suspect they are trashed when they could really be used elsewhere, maybe even overseas in some third world country.
Also, now that they control health care, who determines what is detrimental to your health. Do they ban cigarettes? Alcohol? Racing? Riding horses?
Nope. They don't ban these things. But all that "free" healthcare has to be paid for somehow. Ask zomby how much a jug of Crown costs.
so, to get this straight, you want me, an uninsured American, to move out of the country? Joey
As a fellow uninsured American (by choice, of course, just like you,) I'd say if you're looking for a Canadian-style 'single-payer' system, as thee Obama has said on multiple occassions is his ultimate goal (this is just the tiny brass ring through the nose,) then you should go to Canada, and let those of us who choose liberty over 'security' keep doing so.
racerdave600 wrote: As for Canada, next time you see Challenge Pro Driver Alan McCrispin, ask him about his wife. She's Canadian and her father is was a doctor. Scary stories. They moved to the US to move as far away from that system as they could.
I'd bet that there are as many Canadian doctors in the US with horror stories about our system as there are Canadian doctors in the US who moved there to make more money 
Is our system perfect? No. Do I feel entitled to use it? No. Am I covered from catastrophic health events? Yes. Would I be better off in a private system? Maybe, but then would other Canadians? Not likely. I like a society that attemps to level the playing field in terms of basic human rights
I believe quality health care is a human right. Others may not, but that's okay, because I also believe in freedom of expression..
oldsaw wrote:zomby woof wrote:You have a computer, a radio and presumably TV. Do some research.oldsaw wrote: Ann Coulter may disagree, if you gave her the opportunity.Her name has been on the radio all day. Who is she (and what does that mean)?
She is that painfully skinny, angry chick that used to date Bill Maher.
If I remember correctly, what he was most upset about was that he was told how to be a doctor. There was no more using your own judgment about anything, you had to follow their recommendations period. He came here to actually practice medicine. Evidently there wasn't a ton of difference in what he was making (they moved to a small town here), it was that he could actually "take care" of his patients. I won't go into any more as Alan could explain better.
spitfirebill wrote: Seems to me the insurance company (mine is BC/BS) has lowered my costs.
I am not blaming insurance companies for the high cost of health insurance. I blame a medical industry with no controls or competitiveness on it, which includes the influence the insurance industry.
Your costs are not lower. Your costs are significantly higher, masked behind a system which spreads them over many people and a lot of time. The availability of insurance makes you happy to pay your portion of $3K (plus insurance premiums, associated tax increases, invisible fees, and costs incurred through various other agencies and structures, accrued interest, fees, etc.) instead of $20K (which is probably likely actually costing the system more like $35K, after the same associated costs) for a procedure that could probably be done for only a couple of thousand, if the system was designed to be competitive. Don't forget- SOMEBODY is paying those fees.
Your short term out-of-pocket may be lower. The long term costs to you and the system are higher.
Note my post near the bottom of this page:
Joe Gearin wrote:oldsaw wrote:She is that painfully skinny, angry chick that used to date Bill Maher.zomby woof wrote:You have a computer, a radio and presumably TV. Do some research.oldsaw wrote: Ann Coulter may disagree, if you gave her the opportunity.Her name has been on the radio all day. Who is she (and what does that mean)?
If I were a "chick" who dated Bill Maher, I'd be angry and suffering from anorexia, too!
Actions have consequences.
racerdave600 wrote: If I remember correctly, what he was most upset about was that he was told how to be a doctor. There was no more using your own judgment about anything, you had to follow their recommendations period. He came here to actually practice medicine. Evidently there wasn't a ton of difference in what he was making (they moved to a small town here), it was that he could actually "take care" of his patients. I won't go into any more as Alan could explain better.
You know, Canadians are intelligent, hard-working, and resourceful people. If we felt that we were being screwed by our system, we would do something about it. Health care is one of the "sacred" government services, but that doesn't stop anyone from questioning its effectiveness, or demanding accountability or greater efficiency. It's a healthy debate, and one that seemingly never ends, but in all likelihood makes the service stronger.
It's like anyhting -- if you look hard enough, or have an "agenda" there are probably many "faults". On the other hand, it doesn't take too much looking to find people who are happy with the access to services they have under our system.
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