What utility/towing/hauling beater- a sanity check.

If you aren't planning on using it much, older big block pickup. But since you wussed out and want airbags that gets rid of that idea.

I nominate the V10 Ram. Pulls anything the Cummins does, without the retarded price tag(5 grand for a 20 year old truck? berkeley YOU), gets 12 mpg. My great uncle used one as a shop truck for years with nothing beyond basic maintenence till he managed to grab an old Cummins that wasn't an overpriced basket case.

Plus they can sound like vipers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvRnhrH-8ws

I had the same debate some years ago... ended up with a '95 Cummins 4x4. It's a PITA sometimes... ok - most of the time - especially when it breaks... which is often... my VW is more reliable... and cheaper to fix... and it's always in the way and costs a bit to register and keep insured... but the truck does the hauling thing without breaking a sweat and I keep dreaming that some day I'll buy a nice goose-neck 2-car enclosed trailer. But what I'm really trying to say is consider how much you'll use it and whetehr or not that level of use is worth the added expense of another vehicle.

Weird...my '92 Dodge Cummins 4x4 is as reliable as a hammer. And you can fix it with a hammer. And I beat on it like, well, a hammer. It's got rust on it kindof like the kind you see on railroad tracks. The kind where the metal rusts and then big heavy things bang on it and it doesn't really make the rust go away, but it gets this sort of polished look and doesn't rust any worse. The whole truck is basically an anvil.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: Weird...my '92 Dodge Cummins 4x4 is as reliable as a hammer. And you can fix it with a hammer. And I beat on it like, well, a hammer. It's got rust on it kindof like the kind you see on railroad tracks. The kind where the metal rusts and then big heavy things bang on it and it doesn't really make the rust go away, but it gets this sort of polished look and doesn't rust any worse. The whole truck is basically an anvil.

Ram body-style trucks are not an anvil... or maybe a Chinese anvil that breaks when you really try to use it...

I wanted a '92 or '93 - the last of the old-style 70's box-body trucks - but the g/f vetoed it as being too ugly. Of course, had I known she still wouldn't drive the damned thing, I would have bought the truck I wanted anyway... with proper manual hubs on the front axle instead of the crappy axle-disconnect system.

Hah, today this gets posted. If I knew a darn thing about diesel engines, I might be interested.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/3059382819.html

Brett_Murphy wrote: Hah, today this gets posted. If I knew a darn thing about diesel engines, I might be interested. http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/3059382819.html

Oh damn. He is overpriced, but that is a decent deal at that price. Injectors would run $800-up for a set and at that mileage, a set is money ahead. 7.3 injectors are not hard to replace either.

Used u-haul?

Brett_Murphy wrote: Picture of the shell:

If you're going to keep the garage on the boat then I think it'll weigh more than 2500 pounds! :)

3/4 ton diesel trucks are great for towing (my 2500HD is awesome), but they're gonna be 3 times your $4000 budget. At that price level I'd look for a mid/late-90s Suburban 2500 -- lots of folks bought them as family station wagons back then and now that gas is expensive the value has dropped like a stone. Cheap, 4wd, lots of towing capacity, and it probably hasn't been beaten up like a similar mile truck.

Ian F wrote: It's a PITA sometimes... ok - most of the time - especially when it breaks... which is often... my VW is more reliable... and cheaper to fix...

Ummm.... then you got a very lemon cummins and a miraculously perfect VW. Seriously. Call me when your SAI tube disintegrates and you realize that the proprietary click-link connectors are only available from VW and cost $180 each for about 43 cents of cheap plastic. Or call me when your ABS computer takes a dump and your only option is getting yours rebuilt for $400. Or when your oil pump fails, or when your freakishly specialized CV joints fail, or when your water pump housing rots, or when you have to do a timing belt and realize that you can either guess or buy the $760 worth of VW specialty tools to do it right, or ... nevermind.

Comparing a cummins to a VW diesel is like comparing Brooke Burke to Delta Burke

Does NC require 4wd for sand duty? The reason I ask is because a 2wd truck with posi drives 2 wheels... the same as a 4wd vehicle with open diffs.

4wd trucks require a dozen little tiny extra things; more frequent tire rotations, an extra diff for lubricating, two more U-joints, etc. I have lived in VT, PA, IN, and Ontario, and my winter vehicle was never a 4x4 because it wasn't needed. I'm just thinking that (if NC allows 2wd on the beach) it might be easier to just get what you want and put some 31x12" tires on it with a posi rear.

If you really want a 4x4, the 96-99 GM Vortec trucks are a dime a dozen. They are built on traditional SBC architecture so parts are ridiculously cheap, they are as reliable as dirt, and they have air bags.

Astro awd van with mild lift kit.

Ian F wrote:

volvoclearinghouse wrote: Weird...my '92 Dodge Cummins 4x4 is as reliable as a hammer. And you can fix it with a hammer. And I beat on it like, well, a hammer. It's got rust on it kindof like the kind you see on railroad tracks. The kind where the metal rusts and then big heavy things bang on it and it doesn't really make the rust go away, but it gets this sort of polished look and doesn't rust any worse. The whole truck is basically an anvil.

Ram body-style trucks are not an anvil... or maybe a Chinese anvil that breaks when you really try to use it... I wanted a '92 or '93 - the last of the old-style 70's box-body trucks - but the g/f vetoed it as being too ugly. Of course, had I known she still wouldn't drive the damned thing, I would have bought the truck I wanted anyway... with proper manual hubs on the front axle instead of the crappy axle-disconnect system.

I guess your mileage may vary...my mileage is about 20-21 mpg unloaded, and about 60,000 miles I've put on the truck in the 6 years that I've owned it. It's never broken down, never left me stranded, and never not done what I needed it to do. I paid 4800 for the truck 6 years ago with 229,000 miles on it, replaced a broken windshield, bald tires, iffy brakes and a rusted-out floor, and have just been driving it and changing the oil ever since. It is ridiculously easy to get stuck in 2WD mode, with all that engine weight over the front wheels, so I'm really glad I got the 4WD.

And my wife thinks its about the ugliest truck she's ever seen, but she won't let me sell it because she knows how reliable, useful, and economical it is for us.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: I guess your mileage may vary...my mileage is about 20-21 mpg unloaded, and about 60,000 miles I've put on the truck in the 6 years that I've owned it. It's never broken down, never left me stranded, and never not done what I needed it to do.

I wish. My Cummins has left me stranded multiple times. Despite the fact I own British cars, I mainly got AAA because of that damned truck. Once because the clutch m/c broke; twice because the shut-down solenoid crapped out (fun turning the key off and removing it with the engine still running and then having to pull the air hose and suffocate the engine to shut it off), and one when I accidentally ran it out of fuel because the fuel guage doesn't work (mostly my fault). Nevermind the transmission sounds like it's about to explode, the steering pulls like mad and I'm looking at ~$2000 to rid myslef of axle-disconnect... Hell, half the reason I don't drive it very much is for fear of what will break next... I really hate the truck but I'm so upside-down with regards to its worth I'm stuck with the POS. For as much as I've spent on the bloody thing, I almost could have just gone to the local Dodge dealer back in 2007 and bought a brand new one with a nicer interior... and a warranty...

I'm not saying all Cummins trucks are as bad as mine (few vehicles - period - are as bad as my truck), but I always say "Buyer Beware" and to really consider the risk/reward equation when deciding if you need a diesel truck. In my case, it's been a complete waste of money since I really don't use the truck enough for the fuel savings to pay for it. And even if I ignore all of the troubles I've had, I simply don't drive it enough to justify it.

Curtis - I am well aware of what it takes to own a TDi. I've owned mine since new and it currently has 285K miles. I do all work on it and yes, I've invested no small amount of money into tools for it. And I find the TDI is a lot easier to work on than the Cummins.

After reading through this, I am thinking that skipping the airbags will open up some pretty good trucks for the price.

I hate carburetors. Luckily, my father in law is an old-school gearhead. Oh, crap! If I can find an old Dodge with engine problems, he has a 318 and two 360s just sitting in his shed... hmmm.

Sometimes things just work out alright.

A guy I had doing some work on the house offered to buy the Cherokee for a fair price.

I'm going to take him up on his offer and go look at some trucks.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/3042713165.html

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/3074200854.html

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/3063035495.html

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/3029393720.html

There was a basic, mid-80's Suburban with a diesel and 52,000 miles on CL for $1000 this week. Clean, no rust, no third seat. I couldn't make the call fast enough, it was gone in minutes. The perfect hauler/tow/work/beater/winter/camper/spare room/bachelor pad/truck/thing.

pinchvalve wrote: There was a basic, mid-80's Suburban with a diesel and 52,000 miles on CL for $1000 this week. Clean, no rust, no third seat. I couldn't make the call fast enough, it was gone in minutes. The perfect hauler/tow/work/beater/winter/camper/spare room/bachelor pad/truck/thing.

I've been working on my diesel Sub lately. I wasn't too sure how I felt about it when I first bought it, but after some tinkering, it rocks. Look for another.

The big question is how often do you need to tow the 5000lbs, and when you do, how far will you be towing it? If you're towing 5000lbs, electric brakes on the trailer along with the corresponding controller in the tow vehicle would be a good idea.

If you're towing infrequently, a 1/2 ton truck should more than do the job, and should give you better MPG when you're not towing. In addition, it would be more comfortable to drive. Suburbans are very comfortable to drive or ride in, as well, although any non-1T pickup built over the last 15 years should be a decent ride. My buddy test drove an '02 Silverado HD 4X4, and I was amazed at how good the ride was...

Honestly, I think a lot of it is going to come down to whatever you can get for the right price that meets your criteria be it pickup, SUV, etc. You're in a very low price range for a 4X4 truck or SUV, and most people around here seem to think their 15-20 year old truck is worth 5k no matter how old it is and what condition it's in. Sometimes moving up to the "gas guzzler model" will save you several thousand off the purchase price. These include the larger 8 cyls found in the 3/4 ton trucks and the Ford/Dodge gasoline V10s.

curtis73 wrote: ... when your freakishly specialized CV joints fail...

By this do you mean easily available and fairly cheap oem quality joints, vs an american car which by the time its 5 years old all you can get are junky chinese rebuilt joints that last about a year? Vws aren't perfect, but they are one of the best as far as cv joint availability.

curtis73 wrote: Does NC require 4wd for sand duty? The reason I ask is because a 2wd truck with posi drives 2 wheels... the same as a 4wd vehicle with open diffs. 4wd trucks require a dozen little tiny extra things; more frequent tire rotations, an extra diff for lubricating, two more U-joints, etc. I have lived in VT, PA, IN, and Ontario, and my winter vehicle was never a 4x4 because it wasn't needed. I'm just thinking that (if NC allows 2wd on the beach) it might be easier to just get what you want and put some 31x12" tires on it with a posi rear. If you really want a 4x4, the 96-99 GM Vortec trucks are a dime a dozen. They are built on traditional SBC architecture so parts are ridiculously cheap, they are as reliable as dirt, and they have air bags.

2wd with a posi, and airing way down might be enough for most situations, but won't do when pulling a trailer. I've also seen a lot of 2wds stuck at the beach, I've only seen one 4wd get pulled out, and he probably could have made it with more power. On sand, you need at least as many driven wheels as non driven, even then it's a good idea to air down.

I had a 02 Grand Cherokee. It was boring and had a somewhat rough ride, but it handled fairly well for what it was. I had the straight 6, and towed cars on a couple of occasions. There was a Jetta on a U-Haul double-wheel trailer, and a Taurus Wagon and a Contour, both on a dolly. This was never a problem. I've also towed a small flatbed trailer and a few different U-Haul box trailers. Again, never really an issue for the Jeep.

Steering is surprisingly quick, interior materials were moderately durable, except for the sliding plastic bits around the shifter, and visibility was good. The 02 models were "decontented," losing a few features that you probably don't care about, as well as roof rack cross rails. Mid 02 and earlier models had a problem with uneven front brake wear that feels like rotor warpage but isn't. The headlights turned into frosted plastic by 10:00 am the morning after the truck was manufactured. The information center in the ceiling is pretty cool. You can get OBD-2 codes without a reader by turning the key from off to run three times in a row, stopping at run, then watching the ODO. The spark plugs are a pain, only because disconnecting the coil rail connector is a two-handed job, but it's tucked in at the back of the engine, which is under the cowl, in a one-handed spot. Everything under the hood looked simple, but I never really worked on it except to change the oil, filters and such.

My was a 2WD, and I found myself stuck once in a flat gravel driveway, downtown, across the street from my office. Something other than a completely open diff probably would have avoided the drama, though I wish I'd have sprung for a 4WD model.

I found it to be fairly reliable through most of the time I owned it. If I didn't care about being bored, and if it fit my needs, I'd buy one again.

The_Jed wrote:

Like many real SUVs, it looks best clean, on steel wheels, in base trim. I like it.