What vehicle/s - Family/ Hauler Budget-friendly All-Balls-In-The-Air Edition

Allright, so here's the situation. The wife and I currently have two vehicles that basically fill the role of the "modern" go-to vehicles in our fleet. We have many other cars, which I am dealing with separately, but for the purposes of this thread, let's just focus on these two.

Vehicle #1 is a 2000 Ford F350. It's a 4x4, crew cab, long bed, automatic, with the 7.3 diesel. I bought it about 2 years ago when we were in the process of moving our lives from South Carolina to Maryland. At the same time, I also bought a 34' trailer (flat car hauler, now with the front 1/2 converted to enclosed box). We have about $15,000 into the truck and $4000 into the trailer, both of which are now seeing limited use, which makes me question the point of keeping almost $20,000 worth of equipment around. The truck has about 160,000 miles on it, and I could probably sell it for 12,000 to 14,000 as it sits. The trailer would probably sell for 4,000. Both have new tires and have passed inspections.

Vehicle #2 is a 2000 GMC Jimmy 2 door 4x4. It has about 170,000 miles on it, and also has had some recent work (and new tires) to pass inspections. It's been kindof our go-to travel vehicle, and works OK in that regard, except that being a 2 door it's getting pretty cramped for our family (1 child and a dog, so far). It's in very nice condition, and would probably sell for around 2500.

I need neither of these vehicles for commuting (I DD whatever old beater I currently have running, right now a 1980 Mercedes diesel and a 1967 Volvo 122 share that duty) and Mrs VCH is a stay-at-home mom. The Jimmy and the F350 pretty much stay parked, unless we have to go somewhere as a family- and even then, we generally take my beater Mercedes wagon, unless its over an hour away. The F350 sees use maybe once a month to haul garbage to the dump, lumber from the Lowes, or mulch/ stone from the landscaping place.

In addition to the 34' trailer above, we also have a 5 x 8 trailer I custom built that we use to haul firewood, mulch, etc. It can hold about 1500 pounds, and it's come in very handy. We plan on keeping it.

So...we have, between the F350, Jimmy, and 34' trailer, around $20,000 worth of equipment that's seeing very little use (I'd planned on using the trailer for LeMons, but we do about 1 race per year, so that, again, seems a bit extravagant).

What I'd like to have is one vehicle that Mrs. VCH would be the primary driver of- it would not be driven regularly, but it would be there in case she needs to go somewhere during the day, and would also be used on trips every few months to visit relatives (figure maybe 1000 mile trips 4 or 5 times per year). We'd keep the 5 x 8 trailer for dump runs, hardware store and landscape materials runs, and replace the 34' trailer with a single car hauler that can be towed behind the wife's new driver.

Any thoughts on this plan, especially what vehicle to make the wife's? I'm partial to Suburbans, though the newer ones seem to have the 4L60 and 4L80 trannies that the internet forums love to hate. On the flip side, Ford SUVs have the spark-plug-blowing mod-motors, and the wife is kinda anti-Ford anyway (she's still not 100% liking my F350). Everything seems to break on Chryslers. Minivans are out of the equation, none have good transmissions and none will tow a 6,000+ pound trailer and the wife hates 'em.

So, what to do? In any event, the final solution should leave us with a reliable vehicle AND significant cash in hand.

I bought a 2003 Suburban with the 8.1l and 4l80e. I freakin love it. And I am around 5k all in, replaced most things that could go bad on the motor, came with new tires, and did all the fluids. The interior is gross but if you are careful you can find one that was taken care of. What do the webs have to say about the 4l80e? I know the 60e is an if not when type transmission but the 80e seems pretty much bulletproof. MPGs suck bad. I would have gone a few years newer and gotten the LS based 6.0l version if it was more than a bad weather, tow bitch vehicle.

My vote is sell the truck, the Jimmy, and the trailer, purchase nicest GMT800 Suburban you can get your hands on.

For the purposes of this discussion, fuel economy is a minor issue, although at 15 mpg on diesel the F350 is just about the most expensive vehicle to drive per mile I can imagine. It's about equivalent to a truck that gets 12 mpg on gas. Realizing that the "Mrs. VCH- mobile" is going to have to be somewhat large regardless, and it's not going to see anywhere near 10,000 miles per year, how far it can go on a gallon of gas is somewhat of a low priority.

The 6 liter, 3/4 ton Suburban (with the 4L80 trans) is kindof on the radar. I'm torn between 2 and 4wd. 4WD has come in handy on the Jimmy and the F350, though it does come with a mileage penalty (minor issue). The bigger issue is that 2WD trucks seem to go for much cheaper. I used to own a '77 Suburban, 2WD- I put a good set of A/T tires on it and it went everywhere I needed it to, even with an open rear.

2wd Z71 pkg should get you a good diff as well. I only ever had to use the 4wd on my Suburban once, and that was in deep mud, towing a car out of said mud.

We're looking at big SUVs now too, though our max tow needs are probably around 5k lbs. I had posted an earlier thread about my concerns with the 5.4L Fords spitting plugs, and the consensus answer I got was that the design changed in '09 and it's no longer an issue. Are there any know issues with the 6 speed trans Ford uses?

Is the 4L60 really that bad of a tranny? My wife is partial to the appearance of the Suburban/Yukon XL.

Personally, I have found pros and cons to both. The Suburban is better looking than the Expedition, IMHO. We also like the dash/controls a bit better. We think the Suburban "ages" better, which my wife is concerned about. But the third row doesn't fold flat, which is a pain. The Ford also has a more car like ride. I think in base form, they tow about equal amounts. Wish Ford offered a 3/4 ton Expedition EL like Chevy does with the Suburban.

Maybe the Yukon XL Denali, if it's in your price range? It uses the 6.2L

Other irritating things abut the Suburbans- they all seem to be white, tan, or grey, and have leather interiors. The wife hates leather, and I prefer a color that's actually a color. But I guess that's always the issue when buying used.

There seem to be way more GMT900's out there now, though at a price premium of course. Neither of us care about the styling as much, and the older ones seem like they might have better visibility.

Klayfish wrote: The consensus answer I got was that the design changed in '09 and it's no longer an issue. Are there any know issues with the 6 speed trans Ford uses? Is the 4L60 really that bad of a tranny? But the third row doesn't fold flat, which is a pain. Maybe the Yukon XL Denali, if it's in your price range? It uses the 6.2L

The wife's Jimmy has the 4L60E, and it's been fine for 170,000 miles. But that's a 3800 pound mini SUV. I've heard it doesn't stand up so well in the full-sized trucks- especially when towing.

2009 is probably going to be too new and out of our price range. So, for the older Ford mod motors, the spark plug concern stands.

The third row in the Sub doesn't fold flat...but it does come out. We'd probably just yank it and stick it in the basement, to be used as a couch. ;-) The 2nd row folds flat, doesn't it?

A GMC would be fine, too. Was the 6.2 similar to the 6.0 in the Chevy?

Full size van? Chevy makes an AWD if you really need it. Other wise a LSD and good tires should do the job. More room than a Suburban, same MPG and often cheaper to buy.

You said "so far". To answer properly, you need to answer the "future" part, how big will your family get? A budget would also be helpful.

Chevy Astro.
Sold new through 2005.

tuna55 wrote: You said "so far". To answer properly, you need to answer the "future" part, how big will your family get? A budget would also be helpful.

As far as "so far", we'd like to have another child at some point in the next 2 or 3 years. We both like the "1 child per parent" policy, so 2 is the plan right now.

I will also say, as much as I prefer a car-based transportation device, having the extra size and headroom of the SUV is really freaking nice. When we travel in the F350 or Jimmy, the vehicle ends up getting used much like a camper. It's hard to change a diaper in a car.

As for budget...as mentioned, we're starting off with about $20,000 in vehicles, and I'd like to end up with a significant chunk of change leftover after the shuffle. I've poked around at some GMT800's, and they seem to fetch around 10k for decent ones, which would leave us with the afore-mentioned "significant" chunk of change. I wouldn't bother trading over for anything much more than that, just keep what we have now and use the F350 for long trips, except its freaking huge and has some other limitations.

JohnRW1621 wrote: Chevy Astro. Sold new through 2005.

Had one about 10 years ago. Towing 5k was a struggle, and the driver's footwell area was really cramped and uncomfortable for me. Otherwise, not a bad vehicle.

I'd be down with a full-sized 2500 GM van, but finding one that's not contractor-white and has windows seems very hard.

I'm biased because I like big stupid trucks, but I vote keep the F350. You're never going to lose money on that. Buy the missus a small wagon- IE corolla, accord, whatever.

I am not a big fan of using Suburbans/Tahoes for driving duties as they are severely compromised. Rear seat room is tough to access, they are a chore to drive around, the fuel economy is terrible, and honestly, even as a Chevy fan, they are not terribly reliable. A great choice if you're doing tons of light towing, but since 99.999% of the miles will be without anything hitched up, I wouldn't do it.

I'd probably get a Ridgeline. You go from 11mpg to 17mpg (http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/suburban_2500 http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/ridgeline) and the back seats are probably just as useful as the Suburbans. You were not going to use the rear seat anyway, and now you get something that's way more reliable (via Truedelta) and daily liveable.

Also the Astro is surprisingly unsafe in a side impact collision.

But you don't really care, you are just going to have to figure out what Suburban you'll get.

What about keeping the big truck and selling the trailer and jimmy? It's a crew baby and already in your hands.

The earlier versions of the 4L60E weren't meant to tow in OD (there was even a sticker on the door that said this). Many people towed in OD, which led to the demise of the transmission.

I've owned one truck with the 4L60E and didn't have any issues with it. I always towed in D, though. My parents have owned several Suburbans and pickups with 700r4S/4L60Es and have never had a transmission issue. Aftermarket oil coolers were always added on anything that was used to tow, and I think that's a key to longevity (along with fluid changes and not abusing the transmission).

tuna55 wrote: I am not a big fan of using Suburbans/Tahoes for driving duties as they are severely compromised. Rear seat room is tough to access, they are a chore to drive around, the fuel economy is terrible, and honestly, even as a Chevy fan, they are not terribly reliable. A great choice if you're doing tons of light towing, but since 99.999% of the miles will be without anything hitched up, I wouldn't do it. I'd probably get a Ridgeline. You go from 11mpg to 17mpg (http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/suburban_2500 http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/ridgeline) and the back seats are probably just as useful as the Suburbans. You were not going to use the rear seat anyway, and now you get something that's way more reliable (via Truedelta) and daily liveable. Also the Astro is surprisingly unsafe in a side impact collision. But you don't really care, you are just going to have to figure out what Suburban you'll get.

No, I'm open to suggestions. I hadn't even thought about the Full Size van until it was mentioned here. I'm not sure Mrs. VCh would go for a van, but if it was a decent color, and not some ex-contractor van, she might.

I had actually thought about the Ridgeline. I have two concerns about the R/L, though, the first being it's towing capability.

The second issue is the reason why I'm thinking about selling the F350. While the F350 has a nice big area in the back (and I have a convertible top Soft Topper on mine) it's still not as useful as having the cargo area adjacent to the passenger area, as on a Van or SUV. Plus, if we went to 2 kids AND the dog...life's going to be awfully cramped inside that crew cab whatever.

Yes, fuel economy sucks. 6,0 or 8.1, they all get about 12 not towing anything and single digits with something hitched on. For the few thousand miles it'll get per year, I think we can live with that. We drove the F350 out to Ohio and back last summer, and averaged 14 or 15 mpg, all highway, not towing. At a 20% price premium for diesel, that's right about the same ballpark.

The other issue with the F350 is cold weather starting. Now that we're in Maryland, there have been a few mornings when I went to start the Ford and it...wouldn't. Luckily it's got a block heater, but that requires planning and parking somewhere near an outlet. We can't have a Mrs. VCH daily driver that won't start when she needs to "oh E36 M3 gotta run the kid quick to the doctor".

mndsm wrote: I'm biased because I like big stupid trucks, but I vote keep the F350. You're never going to lose money on that. Buy the missus a small wagon- IE corolla, accord, whatever.

This is a fair point. My truck prior to the F350 was a 3/4 ton Dodge. I bought it for 4800 and sold it- 8 years and 80,000 miles later- for the same money. I think the F350 will hold it's value similarly.

Either this or a Suburban HD.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The future is bright in the used market for 4 cylinder, fuel efficient, car-based cargo vans.

It's a real shame Nissan wasn't able to get better than 15mpg with the NV2500.

oooh, what about a sprinter?

volvoclearinghouse wrote:

mndsm wrote: I'm biased because I like big stupid trucks, but I vote keep the F350. You're never going to lose money on that. Buy the missus a small wagon- IE corolla, accord, whatever.

This is a fair point. My truck prior to the F350 was a 3/4 ton Dodge. I bought it for 4800 and sold it- 8 years and 80,000 miles later- for the same money. I *think* the F350 will hold it's value similarly.

That's just it- I'm looking at trucks in FAR worse shape than your f350 and they're fetching 15-20k. Diesels are bringing RETARDED money right now. You already have it. It's probably one of the better recent diesels out there (I know if I was diesel shopping i'd want a 7.3 TD) and really, it's going to get roughly the same MPG as a similar, smaller vehicle, while being far more capable in the long run.

G_Body_Man wrote: oooh, what about a sprinter?

Last I checked, Sprinters (really, anything diesel) is getting stupid money these days, unless it's circumnavigated the globe a dozen times and looks the part.

I've done my time with diesels, and I have to say, I think I'm over my infatuation with them.