What would you do?

You are in deep doo-doo, if she wants you to be, no matter how much documentation you have.

Yeah I got a bad feeling about this one.  Watch your back.

It's one of the many reasons that I don't like having friends at work, and do my darnedest to keep all of my relationships 100% professional.

I'm not interested in giving or receiving personal support.  That's what I have an outside support system for.

Odd, but it seems to work ok. 

It's a lot easier to trust someone when you keep it purely on a professional level.

SVreX said:

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

Lol!  

It's ok. It's GRM. I expect all advice to be laced with a healthy dose of chasing rabbits!

I'm gonna need a LOT of help. I've only been at this job for about 4 months, and a dozen or more women have been hitting on me. 3 have touched me inappropriately (including rubbing their breasts against me). 2 have called me at home after hours (clearly intoxicated). The 1st week, 1 handed me a post-it note with her Ashley Madison user name written on it. 

I can't figure out what the heck is going on.  This is totally bizarre.  Must be in the water ...

Anyway, I'm gonna need a lot of help!

 

The first post made me think that this could be something where somebody just didn't know where professional boundaries needed to be. If that was all, trying to persuade the HR department to bring in some sort of training about sexual harassment. Usually this seems rather superfluous, but some people could have something seem like it's innocent and not sexual, and unaware of how somebody else might take it. That, and it just seems like it might be easier for a man to lay down clear rules for an all male group in ways they'd understand, but bring women in and there's more opportunity for misunderstanding - or for a man to mince words that he wouldn't with other men.

Some training might still help with SOME of the problems - and a request to HR would at least leave a paper trail if things really get ugly. Maybe phrase it in a bit of a different way, maybe like, "Hey, ____ unexpectedly gave me a hug in the janitor closet - could you help explain why some people might take that the wrong way?" Or possibly some sort of warning that somebody - phrased to suggest that it's presumably NOT yourself - might end up suing if this sort of conduct is allowed to run amok.

Depending on what type of women these are, doubling down on reminders you're taken might help. Putting up portraits of your wife and family in your office, emphasizing them when talking about how the weekend works, etc. Some women might get "OK, he's taken, I ought to give up." But some might not even get the message then.

That situation could call for something more drastic. Do you happen to have any really good looking, single male friends you could arrange to get hired at that place? :D

Pattyo said:

You gotta take the Mike Pence approach and never be alone with a woman at work. You  need to let them know that you are very happily married and not interested in extracurricular activity. Hopefully they will respect that. Good luck.

This. 100x this. When you are absolutely forced into a situation when you are alone-ish, stay distant and professional, but don't be cold either. In this world, any "she" is going to win a fight like this if "she" wants one. Just stay away from anything which could trigger her.

So sad that people like this make it less likely that women with real sexual harassment problems are believed.

SVreX said:

HR department is a department of 1. 

The HR Director is close friends with this woman. 

I guess I'm confused about why this is a concern- the right thing to do is still to go by the book, take it to HR, generate the paper trail, and hopefully move on without incident.  Are you worried that it will get flipped and you'll end up looking like the bad guy?  That there will be some conspiracy to fire you?  In that sort of situation you're still in the right, and it would be even worse if you have a history of not addressing this stuff through the proper channels and it escalates.

Woman does not automatically "win" this if anything does come up to a dispute. Document everything and the steps you've taken, includingtelling the hr department of one. 

Maybe also tell hr, since she's close to hr, that she seems to be going through a hard time and probably needs a friend--and make it clear that friend is not you, as you are no longer comfortable. 

Keep the paper trailing electronic format by doing it through email and bcc to your personal account. 

I'm going to go against the grain here. What would I do? Nothing.

Perhaps that is the unconscious non-confrontational side of me acting and the conscious side of me rationalizing, but I started typing this post last night then thought better of it and slept on it. My gut reaction and answer is still the same, but I think I can explain it better now.

Here's the main point: You HAVE to give everyone the same benefit of the doubt until you know better*. You can be wrongly accused of stealing another contractors tools just like you can be wrongly accused of sexual assault or murder or colluding with the mob. But you probably feel confident that if you don't actually steal tools, you won't be wrongly accused (and if you are, you will shortly be found not guilty), while you sound like you don't feel the same confidence about sexual harassment - which is probably not your fault, but is the result of a lot of BS from a lot of angles, and definitely IS NOT FAIR to the women you work with.

*Why are the women you work with now any more likely to wrongly accuse you of something you didn't do than all the men you have worked with before? Trick question; they're not.

I get that the situation is not comfortable because it is a dynamic you are not yet used to. That's OK. Treating people differently because of it is what we should try to avoid. If another contractor had an awful weekend at home and at the end of the day Monday was loading some of your tools into the wrong truck, and you caught them, and they apologized because it was an honest mistake - would you really document that with HR?

you have two things going on.  One is a specific person and the other is a systematic problem.  

You need to have a chat with HR.  Explain that you dont want to rock the boat on the specific person, or on the company, but that you are having some level of discomfort. You would like an easier earlier resolution rather than allowing any of it to escalate.  Do they have training that people have to take on this?  Does the training cover the female harassing males side of it?  If not, it sounds like HR has some systemic work to be doing regarding trainings. 

That said, my views may be skewed. I am in a huge place known for burecracy, so we get trainings on just about anything and everything out the wazuu. 

The below, if true, ABSOLUTELY needs to be brought to HR attention. Even if you dont wish to pursue.  You are protcting you, and you are allowing HR to protect the company. Especially if you are going to them with an attitude of "I want to help you fix a problem" instead of BEING a problem.

I'm gonna need a LOT of help. I've only been at this job for about 4 months, and a dozen or more women have been hitting on me. 3 have touched me inappropriately (including rubbing their breasts against me). 2 have called me at home after hours (clearly intoxicated). The 1st week, 1 handed me a post-it note with her Ashley Madison user name written on it. 

In reply to Robbie :

The problem with your analogy is that in the current climate, there is very little due process for sexual harassment / assault.  If two guys have an incident over some tools (NPI), it's usually going to shake out fairly quickly... or not, depending on how much of a douchebag the accuser is.  And if he is a douchebag, odds are the rest of the gang knows it and won't believe him anyway.

But with the current mania surrounding sexual and gender issues, that is unlikely to happen.  Companies risk a bigger problem by seeming to ignore or downplay potential incidents.  If the excrement hits the fan, it's cheaper and easier for them to throw Paul under the bus than it is to appear to have suppressed a sexual assault incident... even if one never actually took place.

mazdeuce - Seth said:

Go talk to HR. Tell them what happened. Probably doesn't require discipline, but it does require a paper trail if discipline is needed in the future. A documented history removes the my word vs. her word angle. 

+1. Hopefully HR won't try to cover it up Uber-style...

As someone who has to deal wth women throwing themselves at him all the time and inappropriately touching, rubbing him and making lewd and suggestive comments to him, sending suggestive photos and videos and...darn I almost made it through with a straight face!  

Not to make light of your situation of course. If it did actually happen to me, I would report it to HR immediately.  I have had employees accuse coworkers and the coworkers' defense is that the other party was mad they they rebuffed an advance. Without documentation of the initial offense however, I am in a tight spot.  

Paul, you are being sexually harassed. The incidents you describe, the awkward (and mostly dead-end) choices you have for protecting yourself, and the stressful feelings that you can't control it, could end up being punished for it even though you don't want it, and must spend lots of time deciding if the job's worth it (and how bad you need it)--that's all textbook. It can make a normal job extremely stressful. And THAT is what "the big deal" is all about. You don't have to get raped to find yourself in an atmosphere that is terrible and scary, especially if you need the job.

As for what you should do? Document it. Report it. HR a friend of the abusers? Go above HR. Just realize that you are likely to find yourself being accused of asking for it, your every action in these encounters questioned, your “real” motivation in bringing it up questioned, and your past mined for anything that would suggest you're okay with what's going on and probably deserve it.

I am honestly not trying to troll you here. You're just living a reality many, many women would find familiar and sad. I hope you get some relief.

Margie

That's a touchy subject. Good luck getting through it while minimizing the damage. I've never been in a similar situation, so I don't know for sure how I would react, but I think going to HR may be your best bet, but it is a thorny issue. Just like you are feeling a bit  wary given the current climate, you also don't want the rest of the workers being scared to be around you and feeling like they need to walk on eggshells lest you report them. Some people have been treated so poorly for most of their lives that they mistake basic human decency and kindness for a come on I guess.

Robbie said:

I'm going to go against the grain here. What would I do? Nothing.

Perhaps that is the unconscious non-confrontational side of me acting and the conscious side of me rationalizing, but I started typing this post last night then thought better of it and slept on it. My gut reaction and answer is still the same, but I think I can explain it better now.

Here's the main point: You HAVE to give everyone the same benefit of the doubt until you know better*. You can be wrongly accused of stealing another contractors tools just like you can be wrongly accused of sexual assault or murder or colluding with the mob. But you probably feel confident that if you don't actually steal tools, you won't be wrongly accused (and if you are, you will shortly be found not guilty), while you sound like you don't feel the same confidence about sexual harassment - which is probably not your fault, but is the result of a lot of BS from a lot of angles, and definitely IS NOT FAIR to the women you work with.

*Why are the women you work with now any more likely to wrongly accuse you of something you didn't do than all the men you have worked with before? Trick question; they're not.

I get that the situation is not comfortable because it is a dynamic you are not yet used to. That's OK. Treating people differently because of it is what we should try to avoid. If another contractor had an awful weekend at home and at the end of the day Monday was loading some of your tools into the wrong truck, and you caught them, and they apologized because it was an honest mistake - would you really document that with HR?

Good perspective. Yes, it's a new environment that I am getting acquainted with. 

I do, however, disagree that there is no more incentive for a woman to wrongfully accuse me of something then a man. 

If a man accuses me of stealing his tools, it might be vindictive, or motivated by jealousy, or whatever.  There is no financial incentive, and it's easy to prove wrong (or at least difficult to prove right if there is no evidence or stolen goods). 

If a subordinate of mine walks out of a closet with me and wrongfully accuses me of harrassment, it could end in my termination (which is the same outcome for me), but it could also end in a sexual harrassment lawsuit against the company, which could be enormously financially beneficial to the woman. It's much easier to "prove" (her word against mine), and the company would be anxious to make the problem go away, which could mean a settlement to the woman. 

So yes, I appreciate your input and agree with it in theory, but don't think it stands up in practice. 

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

I am certainly aware that women deal with this all too frequently. 

BTW...

Not that it matters, but I am pretty sure every one of the women who have approached me are married, or recently divorced. 

Its a cultural problem. 

... Oh, and I have heard FAR more sexually suggestive commentary coming from women in the last couple months than I ever heard from men in 40 years of of construction combined. 

It is a regular topic of conversation throughout the entire facility.  Cafeteria, cubicles, hallway, whatever. 

I am sitting in the cafeteria right now.  I am the only man in the room.  I am mostly listening, and saying very little.  There are 4 separate (moderately) sexually explicit conversations going on right now at the same time within earshot.

I feel like I'm on a strange planet. 

What would I do?  I really can't say for sure.  Now if you had pictures....

But seriously, glad to be semi-retired/working from home.  My last office experience was very old-school, very non-PC and I enjoyed the heck out of it.  But I was also single then....

The times they are a-changin'.  And not for the better, I fear.

BTW, I'm not a prude. Like pheller said earlier, the banter makes for a fun environment to work in. 

But I am not sure if it's all in good fun, or if I have a target on my back. 

1988RedT2 said:

The times they are a-changin'.  And not for the better, I fear.

The opportunity is here RIGHT NOW to make the change for the better.  Or, it could go to a different type of bad.

Yeah, something must be in the water.  I've never heard of an environment like that, and I work in a pretty mixed office. 

-are you actually Brad Pitt using a pseudonym?  Uh, congrats I guess?

-is this office almost exclusively women?  Perhaps they're not used to having a man in the office, in the same way a shop full of mechanics wouldn't know what to with a blonde bombshell on the shop floor, even if she's a great mechanic

-have you screwed up at work or had to make some tough changes?  Could it be targeted, an attempt to get rid of you?

Not saying any of the above are the case or even likely, just wondering out loud and trying to gather relevant information. Seems like an abnormal situation, but what do I know...

SVreX said:

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

I am certainly aware that women deal with this all too frequently. 

Like I said, wasn’t trying to troll you—pointed that out in part because you might want to discuss this with a woman you trust. The more I read about your workplace, the more I think you might want to do this.

margie

The easy button is to play dumb to all of it. They hit on you/touch/talk inappropriately, you simply act clueless. Just let it sail right over your head. Most of them will eventually give up. I have had this work at more than one employer.

The other thing that can prevent most of it in the first place is, NEVER be in a physical space with a female with the door closed (supply room!!!) without another male with you to act as an observer/witness to all interactions. This means if a female/females comes in while you are there, drop what you are doing, literally, and leave the space. If this means some of your tasks take longer to complete, so be it. At least no more situations can exist that can be abused/taken advantage of by aggressive female co-workers.

Please tell me her name was Amy!

I don't know how it works in your hood, but I just lived through one of these situations. The province has very well defined rules ( Bill 168) and mandatory training for all workers and managers for just this kind of thing.

Bottom line, if any of my guys even mentions something like this to me in passing, I have to go into a SOP where we have to show we have intervened and arrived at a documented solution. NOT going through the hoops leaves the company ( and me personally according to bill 168) open to all kinds of litigation and fines.