I was at a Hyundai dealership with my M-I-L who is shopping new SUV's. The salesperson proceeded to tell M-I-L that the warranty requires oil changes to be done at the dealership and with a Hyundai filter. I asked, and no, the changes are not free.
If I remember correctly, there is a US law that states if a service is required and if the use of a non-oem part is required then the manufacturer must provide the part - or - the use of a acceptable aftermarket part is acceptable. What is that law?
Ask salesperson to show it to you in writing, that Hyundai filter and oil must be used.
Perfect, I kept thinking Massey-Ferguson but I knew that was something different.
I didn't read the act but I'm pretty sure you just have to have records showing that the maintenance was performed.
Yes, you must prove the service was done but tie-ins are not allowed.
An example of a tie-in would be to charge a high price (monopoly) for oil changes to keep the warranty alive.
If that part, and that part only is required to keep the warranty alive, the manufacturer must provide the part free.
Further:
FTC said: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt192.shtm An 'aftermarket' part is a part made by a company other than the vehicle manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer. A 'recycled' part is a part that was made for and installed in a new vehicle by the manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer, and later removed from the vehicle and made available for resale or reuse. Simply using an aftermarket or recycled part does not void your warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part. Still, if it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly, and it causes damage to another part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.
It's a Hyundai, mine has never been to the stealership since purchased and lo and behold it still runs like a top,
Y'all covered it pretty well. Magnuson-Moss also includes a bit where, if something (a particular lubricant, filter, etc) is required to be used to preserve your warranty, it must be made available at no charge to the consumer during the warranty period.
In addition, the use of an aftermarket whatever does not 'void the warranty' on your car. If you decide to install an aftermarket radio and the transmission pukes, they cannot void the warranty on the transmission because of the aftermarket radio. However, if a problem can be shown to be a result of the installation of an aftermarket part, the manufacturer has the right to deny THAT PARTICULAR CLAIM.
Having said that, VW issued a bulletin way back when that if the stock wiring harness were cut to install an aftermarket radio, the car would forever be under extra scrutiny for wiring or electrical claims and they could very possibly be denied. Why? The data link for the radio was (IIRC) black with a red stripe and could be interpreted as a ground during probing for connections for a radio. If it were used as a ground, well, it was a primitive form of CAN-BUS and yes it would fry other stuff such as the PCM. If you used one of those quickie plug setups sold by Metra and similar manufacturers you were in the clear. Cut and buttsplice your new radio to the car harness? Oh dude, you were screwed. VW would actually flag the VIN for extra scrutiny during claim processing. If we didn't report this kind of thing when we discovered it, VW could go back through all the claims we had on that VIN and deny anything electrically related.
Believe me, this was at least a two or three times a week question and I made copies of the bulletin to hand out to those who asked. The bulletin could be interpreted to mean if any wiring were cut anywhere other than an authorized VW dealer, bad juju would follow.
Email to salesman:
emai said: Keith, Thanks for taking the time to meet with my Mother-in-law, my wife and I tonight. I wanted to get right back to you and make you keenly aware of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 (not new.) In our discussion tonight you stated that Hyundai brand oil filters were required on the Santa Fe we were considering. You also clearly stated that those oil filters were not provided free of charge. Your statements violate the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. From the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt192.shtm The Act Says: Simply using an aftermarket or recycled part does not void your warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part. Still, if it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly, and it causes damage to another part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage. Also, tie-ins are not allowed to warranties: The example here would be a monopoly of requiring a Hyundai branded oil filter. As the law reads, if a Hyundai branded filter and only Hyundai branded filter is allowed then the manufacturer must provide that filter free of charge. If the Hyundai branded filter were required what would keep Hyundai from charging $1,000 per filter or your warranty is void? Now, what you can say and what you may have intended to say is that you feel Hyundai filters are better than aftermarket so you HIGHLY RECOMMEND a Hyundai filter. You may find that I agree with that statement. Please know that telling me I MUST use a Hyundai filter is highly illegal and makes me question your honesty and overall knowledge of your industry. Yours, John Welsh
Personally, I'd go ahead and get the oil changes done wherever I bought the car as long as the car is under warranty. If the car pukes an engine, it gives them less chance of squirming out of the warranty. Bottom line, if they decide to screw you, they will, it's what dealerships do, and quoting a law will do your M.I.L. no good when she is on foot because of a blown motor.
I have no issues with getting oil changes at dealership and agree with your idea of a single place to finger-point.
I did not like the overall tone/style of this dealership during much of the visit.
The M-M Act statements were easily cite-able as wrong.
The attitude of, "I need the dealership more than they need me" is harder for me to verbalize.
Curmudgeon wrote: Y'all covered it pretty well. Magnuson-Moss also includes a bit where, if something (a particular lubricant, filter, etc) is required to be used to preserve your warranty, it must be made available at no charge to the consumer during the warranty period. In addition, the use of an aftermarket whatever does not 'void the warranty' on your car. If you decide to install an aftermarket radio and the transmission pukes, they cannot void the warranty on the transmission because of the aftermarket radio. However, if a problem can be shown to be a result of the installation of an aftermarket part, the manufacturer has the right to deny THAT PARTICULAR CLAIM. Having said that, VW issued a bulletin way back when that if the stock wiring harness were cut to install an aftermarket radio, the car would forever be under extra scrutiny for wiring or electrical claims and they could very possibly be denied. Why? The data link for the radio was (IIRC) black with a red stripe and could be interpreted as a ground during probing for connections for a radio. If it were used as a ground, well, it was a primitive form of CAN-BUS and yes it would fry other stuff such as the PCM. If you used one of those quickie plug setups sold by Metra and similar manufacturers you were in the clear. Cut and buttsplice your new radio to the car harness? Oh dude, you were screwed. VW would actually flag the VIN for extra scrutiny during claim processing. If we didn't report this kind of thing when we discovered it, VW could go back through all the claims we had on that VIN and deny anything electrically related. Believe me, this was at least a two or three times a week question and I made copies of the bulletin to hand out to those who asked. The bulletin could be interpreted to mean if any wiring were cut anywhere other than an authorized VW dealer, bad juju would follow.
But the converse is say you end up at 64k on a 6/60 powertrain warranty and the trans pukes. But at 58k, you had done your usual dealership oil change and also performed the required trans service. When you bring it in on the hook, you can CALMLY talk to the service manager into maybe "goodwilling" the repair, based on your usual habits of letting the dealership do the necessary repairs earlier in your vehicles service life. The service manager should confirm that is the case and you maybe walk out $100 poorer, depending on what kind of warranty.
Now and the other side of the coin, you never bring it in and have the same thing happen. The service manager is going to sit there, listen to you bitch, and probably tell you to take a hike. He has that option because you haven't "made him any money".
So where do you want to be? And that is where the up front salesman twists the words to force you into dealership service.....
Ranger50 wrote: But the converse is say you end up at 64k on a 6/60 powertrain warranty and the trans pukes. But at 58k, you had done your usual dealership oil change and also performed the required trans service. When you bring it in on the hook, you can CALMLY talk to the service manager into maybe "goodwilling" the repair, based on your usual habits of letting the dealership do the necessary repairs earlier in your vehicles service life. The service manager should confirm that is the case and you maybe walk out $100 poorer, depending on what kind of warranty.
Exactly.
Their oil change prices can't possibly be anymore exorbitant than insert place here, so for a non-car enthusiast, it makes perfect sense to get MOST of any work that requires getting done at the dealership.
I thought the problem with VWs and aftermarket stereos was that an incorrect install could let the smoke out of the factory scan tool. I'm not familiar with their scantool, but it's probably a $20k oopsie.
You do not have to use the OE stuff, but you must be willing to prove the oil you used is approved to the standard required by the manufacturer. If it needs an ACEA A1B1 standard, or whatever, and you use Amsoil, which may in fact be a fine product, you can be denied warranty on lubricated engine parts. Amsoil meets no standards. They claim to "meet or exceed" , but that holds no water with the warranty department if they decide to be dicks.
We generally tell our customers with new cars to get their oil changes done at the dealership. Irf we do them , we make sure the oil meets the standards, and record that info on the repair order. GM is being a bit knobby about their dexos standard.
Having said all that, the salesman in the story is a bottom feeding scum who needs to be told clearly why he isn't getting the sale, and the competing dealership down the road who didn't lie through their teeth is getting Moms dough.
Knurled wrote: I thought the problem with VWs and aftermarket stereos was that an incorrect install could let the smoke out of the factory scan tool. I'm not familiar with their scantool, but it's probably a $20k oopsie.
That's correct. The VAG 1551 (hey, I didn't name the thing! 
) and its successors used that data link to diagnose radio concerns. The link also went other places in the car, such as to the PCM for the speed dependent audio volume and that was where the rest of the problem came from.
Ranger50 wrote:Curmudgeon wrote: Y'all covered it pretty well. Magnuson-Moss also includes a bit where, if something (a particular lubricant, filter, etc) is required to be used to preserve your warranty, it must be made available at no charge to the consumer during the warranty period. In addition, the use of an aftermarket whatever does not 'void the warranty' on your car. If you decide to install an aftermarket radio and the transmission pukes, they cannot void the warranty on the transmission because of the aftermarket radio. However, if a problem can be shown to be a result of the installation of an aftermarket part, the manufacturer has the right to deny THAT PARTICULAR CLAIM. Having said that, VW issued a bulletin way back when that if the stock wiring harness were cut to install an aftermarket radio, the car would forever be under extra scrutiny for wiring or electrical claims and they could very possibly be denied. Why? The data link for the radio was (IIRC) black with a red stripe and could be interpreted as a ground during probing for connections for a radio. If it were used as a ground, well, it was a primitive form of CAN-BUS and yes it would fry other stuff such as the PCM. If you used one of those quickie plug setups sold by Metra and similar manufacturers you were in the clear. Cut and buttsplice your new radio to the car harness? Oh dude, you were screwed. VW would actually flag the VIN for extra scrutiny during claim processing. If we didn't report this kind of thing when we discovered it, VW could go back through all the claims we had on that VIN and deny anything electrically related. Believe me, this was at least a two or three times a week question and I made copies of the bulletin to hand out to those who asked. The bulletin could be interpreted to mean if any wiring were cut anywhere other than an authorized VW dealer, bad juju would follow.But the converse is say you end up at 64k on a 6/60 powertrain warranty and the trans pukes. But at 58k, you had done your usual dealership oil change and also performed the required trans service. When you bring it in on the hook, you can CALMLY talk to the service manager into maybe "goodwilling" the repair, based on your usual habits of letting the dealership do the necessary repairs earlier in your vehicles service life. The service manager should confirm that is the case and you maybe walk out $100 poorer, depending on what kind of warranty. Now and the other side of the coin, you never bring it in and have the same thing happen. The service manager is going to sit there, listen to you bitch, and probably tell you to take a hike. He has that option because you haven't "made him any money". So where do you want to be? And that is where the up front salesman twists the words to force you into dealership service.....
Good point. Something about 'goodwill' repairs: the dealership has nothing to do with that. 'Self authorize' dealers can do in warranty repairs up to a predetermined amount without getting the rep involved (but are still subject to audit kickback if incorrect or fraudulent). Once out of warranty, the district rep has to get involved. They have to defend their decision to the next guy up the food chain and one criteria is 'does the dealer service the car or does Jiffy Lube?'. Using JL etc doesn't necessarily mean no goodwill but it does tilt the scales against you.
In reply to jrw1621:
Are you sure he wasn't talking about the Hyundai Assurance Plan (trade in value), vs the warranty? I have a Hyunda and I'm pretty sure if I want to rely on the Assurance Plan, I have to have all the service done there.
Tell me more of this Hyundai Assurance Plan. The words assurance and plan never entered the conversation. That does not mean the salesman may have mixed terms or combined ideas or just screwed it up.
In reply to jrw1621:
I'm sure it's described in detail on Hyundai's website. As I understand it, the program is marketed to guarantee a certain value on the car if you trade it in in the future.
jrw1621 wrote: Tell me more of this Hyundai Assurance Plan. The words assurance and plan never entered the conversation. That does not mean the salesman may have mixed terms or combined ideas or just screwed it up.
A dealership and its associated manufacturer have a heck of a lot more legal resources at their disposal than you do. Jus' sayin'...
Streetwiseguy wrote: You do not have to use the OE stuff, but you must be willing to prove the oil you used is approved to the standard required by the manufacturer. If it needs an ACEA A1B1 standard, or whatever, and you use Amsoil, which may in fact be a fine product, you can be denied warranty on lubricated engine parts. Amsoil meets no standards. They claim to "meet or exceed" , but that holds no water with the warranty department if they decide to be dicks. We generally tell our customers with new cars to get their oil changes done at the dealership. Irf we do them , we make sure the oil meets the standards, and record that info on the repair order. GM is being a bit knobby about their dexos standard. Having said all that, the salesman in the story is a bottom feeding scum who needs to be told clearly why he isn't getting the sale, and the competing dealership down the road who didn't lie through their teeth is getting Moms dough.
Amsoil is in fact, ACEA-A5/B5, A1/B1 rated. I just looked at the label on a bottle.
Let me tell you guys how it works with Ford. If you have any engine troubles at all due to oiling, and if your vehicle comes in with anything other than a Ford filter (which are patented designs, so no aftermarket filter is exact and therefore is NOT an OEM replacement equivalent) then your engine warranty is void. If you have an aftermarket filter which carries it's own warranty (Amsoil filters definitely do) then it's up to that manufacturer to warranty the repairs.
We went through this with the local DPS office on a P71. Needless to say, that didn't help getting any leniency with them. LOL
In reply to Conquest351:
Then why can't I get them free? I can see the case with the orange can of death attached to the nipple..... But to underhandedly stipulate anything but a filter that even they don't even make, last I knew Purolator made them, is skirting the already quoted above law.
Also, I can see that for those POFS 6.0/6.4's, where if you look at them wrong they stretch the headbolts and blow the head gaskets out.... Or have clogged up oil coolers of a E36 M3ty design which kills off the rest of the motor.... Or the weak EGR cooler design....
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