Saw a very odd flight going on this morning. 4 helicopters, in some formation, and at first they appeared to be stationary. I was northbound on a state highway (passenger) and could tell they were moving after a minute. They seemed to be going NNE at a pretty slow pace, as we were clearly outrunning them doing 55. I'm not too far from Nellis AFB, and they looked black but not like the occasional combat bird we see. Sorry for the poor photos.
these photos were taken on a bend in the road and the camera was facing almost straight south. So not only was the formation odd, but it was flying sideways. Anyone got any clues?
They were tracking the UFO the Army is test flying.
Mr_Asa
UltraDork
1/4/21 3:15 p.m.
Too close to be any sort of search party. They've got to get a certain amount of flight hours per month/quarter/whatever to maintain flight status, could just be a practice flight for some tactical manuver
Yeah I didn't think search party since they were rather high up and too close to each other. And other than being black, I don't think they were necessarily from Nellis, but I can't think of anybody closer than that that would have multiple helicopters.
Duke
MegaDork
1/4/21 3:28 p.m.
1 Jet Ranger or similar leading 3 Blackhawks...
Formation practice?
Duke said:
1 Jet Ranger or similar leading 3 Blackhawks...
Formation practice?
I mean *technically* its likely a Kiowa and 3 blackhawks.... but I think the lead looks more like the newer Lakota (eurocopter)
The lead helicopter looks like a UH-72 Light Utility followed by three Blackhawks. Staggered formation like that is pretty typical for moving together as a group. I've been out of the military flying business for over 15 years now, so I can only guess at what they are doing. Probably part of a larger exercise and being in the air available for what comes next. Cruising at 45 to 60 knots is the best way to conserve fuel if you have to wait while you are in the air. Hovering burns a lot more gas.
I see them flying up and down the coast fairly regularly. Usually 4 Blackhawks in formation. I assume they are either training flights or transfer flights.
After Somalia and Afghanistan I wonder why the army hadn't developed a NOTAR type helicopter?
bobzilla said:
Duke said:
1 Jet Ranger or similar leading 3 Blackhawks...
Formation practice?
I mean *technically* its likely a Kiowa and 3 blackhawks....
I think that they retired all the Kiowas a few years ago, or at least that was the plan. The UH-72 (EC-145) was supposed to replace it and the few remaining Hueys.
AAZCD (Forum Supporter) said:
bobzilla said:
Duke said:
1 Jet Ranger or similar leading 3 Blackhawks...
Formation practice?
I mean *technically* its likely a Kiowa and 3 blackhawks....
I think that they retired all the Kiowas a few years ago, or at least that was the plan. The UH-72 (EC-145) was supposed to replace it and the few remaining Hueys.
caught me before the edit.
What looks like a leader in those photos on the left was not in the lead. The formation was circular (square?) and heading almost straight towards me.
barefootskater (Shaun) said:
What looks like a leader in those photos on the left was not in the lead. The formation was circular (square?) and heading almost straight towards me.
It can be hard to know for sure how they are arranged if you are looking at them from a distance in a moving vehicle. There are a variety of illusions that can effect the perspective. At a glance, I see them as moving right to left with the UH-72 in the lead and the next aircraft staggered to the right with all at nearly the same altitude. It could also be seen as staggered left with the second and fourth aircraft being at a lower altitude than the lead.
Staggered left ------ Staggered right
Look at this one. Is the aircraft on the bottom moving towards you or away?
In reply to barefootskater (Shaun) :
Sounds like they're coming for you then. Hope your tinfoil hat is ready 
In reply to barefootskater (Shaun) :
You didn't see any black helicopters.
Don't make me make you repeat that.
I see that frequently around here. Formations of 3-5. Sometimes clearly following highways. Sometimes power lines. Sometimes nothing obvious. It's frequent enough that I always figured it was just formation practice.
I never trained in a whirly, but I was along for a training my buddy was doing. I started getting my fixed-wing private license but ran out of money.
If it was a training thing, it could be some power-off coast training. Choppers can still glide for a landing if they lose power... as long as they have some lateral momentum. As long as they're moving (preferably forward) and lose power, they can keep the rotor spinning with a careful balance of forward motion and gentle descent.
Although... they are a bit low for that kind of training. I think when I experienced it we were at around 1400 ft. Still.... seems like some kind of training to me.
I think the word you are looking for is autorotation. You can keep rotor speed by descending and use the energy in the blades to allow a flare (soft landing) at the end. I am pretty sure you can autorotate from a hover in most all helicopters given enough altitude. The lack of forward speed will give you far fewer options of a landing point though (and less overall energy to translate to rotor speed), so yes, hovering is going to be inherently more dangerous.
I have no idea what the helicopter are practicing, but particularly interesting that there are two types involved.
Notice how the airflow is reversed, powering the rotors, rather then the powered rotors providing lift and thrust.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
I never trained in a whirly, but I was along for a training my buddy was doing. I started getting my fixed-wing private license but ran out of money.
If it was a training thing, it could be some power-off coast training. Choppers can still glide for a landing if they lose power... as long as they have some lateral momentum. As long as they're moving (preferably forward) and lose power, they can keep the rotor spinning with a careful balance of forward motion and gentle descent.
Although... they are a bit low for that kind of training. I think when I experienced it we were at around 1400 ft. Still.... seems like some kind of training to me.
"Whirlys" do that (autorotation), but when the do they are dropping out of the sky at about 1,500 feet per minute. It is not something that is sustained at an altitude in formation.
The descent is generally done at 60 to 100 knots and can easily be sustained once established. As the aircraft nears the ground, the pilot pitches the nose up to cause a deceleration, exchanging the forward speed for more lift to slow the descent. When the energy driving the blades starts to dissipate shortly before touch down, the pilot increases the pitch of all the blades (collective pitch) to use the remaining energy to cushion the landing.
It can easily be done from a hover up to about ten feet. Above that, there is usually not enough energy in the blades to cushion the landing. With a hover of at least 300' it is possible to get enough forward acceleration to recover safely at the bottom, but you have to react correctly immediately.
This is what I get for being out of the loop for a couple weeks. Yes, LUH-72 Lakota in the lead and 3 Blackhawks. They are probably going faster than it appears but slower than their airspeed indicator shows because of a headwind. Color is standard paint scheme, just appears darker. And yes I'm an army helicopter guy. Retired active duty and now civilian still working army helicopters. With the Lakota there, those are most likely National Guard.
And NOTAR has been tested. Does work but has limitations not conducive to the type of flying the military does. Too prone to failure, doesn't react quick enough and too costly are just some of the downsides.
