You learn so much from owning, buying, and selling a house.

I learned that there are 3 different types of gas water heaters, atmospherically vented, direct vented or power vented. I only learned this after I bought and installed the wrong type. If your exhaust goes out the side of the house it'll be direct vented or power vented, oh and those models cost about $500 more than an atmospherically vented unit that you will find at Lowes.

I learned that you never go with a home inspector that your realtor suggests unless you know them. Research and talk to as many people as you can about who to choose. The old fart that did our inspection missed a ton of stuff I'm having to fix now in order to sell.

I learned that you can't put 20 and 30 amp breakers on 14-2 gauge wire, and that if you have a crappy inspector he won't notice this.

I learned that pluming S-traps are illegal, they may be grandfathered in, but will need to be replaced with a P-trap if you do any pluming work to bring them up to code.

I learned that apparently I'm the only person who expects a 15 year old house to not be in perfect condition.

I already knew this, but my wife learned that you never hire a realtor who is your neighbor. They are just sales people and you have to be dicks to them to get them to do what you want. It's never fun to have to be a dick to your neighbors that you sorta don't mind as people.

I learned that insurance companies suck, and if you have roof damage and are unsure if it will total out the roof, it might be best if some more damage appeared overnight to make sure the roof will total out.

I learned that no one tells you all this stuff in advance, so here it is for people who may not know.

That's true for life in general, you learn by doing.

Probably in real estate, more so than in any other purchase, let the buyer beware!

Sorry to hear about the plumbing and electrical issues.

What is the damage to the roof?

In any event what you are describing is fraud and there are ways to tell man made damages vs. those caused by wind, hail etc.

A seperate thought. Ive often wondered why people expect roofs to be replaced when they age out or accumulate damage over a number of years or series of events. Would you call your car insurer when you cord a set of tires?

In reply to Greg Voth:

The roof had wind damage from a storm, it was 14 years old. The whole front got totaled, but on the back they only wanted to repair the sections that where damaged, well in the time it took to get a roofer and everything lined up we had another storm, more damage occurred on the part that was undamaged. So another claim was file, another 1k deductible, and I finally had a new roof with no chance of mismatched color shingles. While I don't condone fraud, had maybe a dozen more shingles found their way off the roof, I might have been spared the extra 1K deductible and all the hassle associated with filing a new claim.

You live and learn, I'm just putting it out there for potential homeowners to be aware of.

I also learned to check or ask about older homes for polybutylene pipes, even thought the pipes may be fine, your insurance most likely will not cover the house if it has any. No insurance means no loan, which means no house for you. Even if the house is everything you wanted in a new place.

I thought the PBT pipe thing was a lifetime warranty? Meaning that there's no reason for the ins co to deny coverage? I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again...

EDIT- Yep, wrong again. The coverage for the last hoses buil with this stuff ended in 2012.

http://www.polybutylenelawsuit.com/guidelines.htm

Curmudgeon wrote: I thought the PBT pipe thing was a lifetime warranty? Meaning that there's no reason for the ins co to deny coverage? I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again... EDIT- Yep, wrong again. The coverage for the last hoses buil with this stuff ended in 2012. http://www.polybutylenelawsuit.com/guidelines.htm

lol. Yeah I'm finding out I'm more wrong than right when it comes to this stuff. Good thing I can learn from my wrongness.

Every time I see a dark cloud I cross my fingers for a killer hail storm to smash my roof up. I could use a new roof, but I didn't realize how expensive they were. I could put together 3 challenge cars for what my roof would cost.

What I owned from home ownership is to never, ever do it again. Let someone else (IE the landlord) deal with all that crap.

My grandfather never owned a house in his life. He always told me, "You don't own a house, the house owns YOU." I believe him.

When selling my first home, I discovered 10-days before closing that it needed an entire new septic system. The cost to have one installed was 10-grand, which was what I was going to clear on the house...and unfortunately, was also the downpayment for our next house.

I did a bit of research, and at that time/county in IL homeowners were allowed to install their own septic system without needing any kind of license. So I contacted the county Health Department(who seemed very willing to help since I was concerned with doing a proper job), borrowed some survey equipment from a friend who was a geologist. Then I drew up my plans & got them approved, rented a backhoe & asked another friend to show me how to run it, and got it installed in 3-4 days with occasional help from some other friends when they stopped by.

It was certainly a taxing situation at the time, but looking back 10-years now, I'm glad to be able to say I did it.

In reply to petegossett:

Good lord, that sucks a fat one. The water heater going out just 2 days before we were about to list the house was enough for me.

Curmudgeon wrote: I thought the PBT pipe thing was a lifetime warranty? Meaning that there's no reason for the ins co to deny coverage? I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again... EDIT- Yep, wrong again. The coverage for the last hoses buil with this stuff ended in 2012. http://www.polybutylenelawsuit.com/guidelines.htm

I remember looking at that stuff years ago, and to be honest, when I need to do a bit of plumbing, I look at the new magic plastic guaranteed never to fail, not even in a nuclear war stuff ...and then I buy hard copper and solder it in, connecting it to the stuff that was soldered in in 1962 and still looks like new. But holy cow is copper pipe expensive these days.

I'm certainly not enjoying the process of trying to sell my house, and I'm not even at the point of having offers and having inspectors coming through and picking it apart. My girlfriend is increasingly convinced that my realtor is incompetent (or going senile :P), and I'm getting more convinced as time goes by that she's correct.

I've been debating having it inspected myself before we get any bids and buyers have it inspected to try and make sure there aren't any surprises... will have to look more into that once I get back from my vacation next week. How much was the inspection?

In reply to Ashyukun:

They payed $400 for theirs. We payed $350 to have the house we are moving to inspected.

Yeah I expected to pass with flying colors, since I hadn't changed anything on the house and it got the all clear when we moved in. I just hope that guy is retired now and no longer cheating people like he did us.

Streetwiseguy wrote: But holy cow is copper pipe expensive these days.

Yeah... I love the idea of re-piping my house with new copper, but when PEX is a fraction of the cost and installs a ton faster with fewer joints as well as being easier to run through joists, it's a no-brainer. I can't see me ever installing copper again unless I have to.

Yep... 14/2 is a no-go on a 20A circuit. On a 30A circuit, it can turn into a heater, which is generally frowned upon by whoever is underwriting your fire policy.

t25torx wrote: In reply to Greg Voth: The roof had wind damage from a storm, it was 14 years old. The whole front got totaled, but on the back they only wanted to repair the sections that where damaged, well in the time it took to get a roofer and everything lined up we had another storm, more damage occurred on the part that was undamaged. So another claim was file, another 1k deductible, and I finally had a new roof with no chance of mismatched color shingles. While I don't condone fraud, had maybe a dozen more shingles found their way off the roof, I might have been spared the extra 1K deductible and all the hassle associated with filing a new claim. You live and learn, I'm just putting it out there for potential homeowners to be aware of.

Still fraud (I know you didn't do it, but you are condoning it)

Does it suck? Yes. You got the short end of the stick on that one. But that is life.

EvanR wrote: What I owned from home ownership is to never, ever do it again. Let someone else (IE the landlord) deal with all that crap. My grandfather never owned a house in his life. He always told me, "You don't own a house, the house owns YOU." I believe him.

I'm very curious about the theoretical aspects of this approach.

I hate not being able to do what I want with a property, but in the end, it's more about the land than it is about the house. I'd love to own a few acres out in the country, have a small one room cabin on it, and be able to do with the land what I want.

My "working" home could be in the city and since I won't own much land there anyway, I don't care if its rented or not.

Sounds like I'm still losing money not owning a home, though.

I fail to see how "house owns you" is worse than pissing rent money down the drain every month.

I'll build equity and deal with the house, thanks very much.

Apartments and condos are another story. I can't believe how many people get duped into owning a building but not owning the land.

Trans_Maro wrote: Apartments and condos are another story. I can't believe how many people get duped into owning a building but not owning the land.

In some places, it makes sense. In NYC, it would be about the only way to own something in Manhattan.

Here in Kansas City, developers have attempted to use the same business models with predictable results.

I've never bought or sold a home, but I repair on and maintain the home my wife bought before we met. My amazement never ceases at the "repairs" or "improvements" made by previous owners. Our house was built in 1938, and has been maintained without much bastardization. What I have seen does shock me, though.

Trans_Maro wrote: I fail to see how "house owns you" is worse than pissing rent money down the drain every month. I'll build equity and deal with the house, thanks very much. Apartments and condos are another story. I can't believe how many people get duped into owning a building but not owning the land.

And you still never even OWN the land, you have to pay rent to the gov't on it.

Don't pay those property taxes and see how long you OWN the land.

Also, the "house owns you" theory comes from the idea that a home isn't an investment because of the money needed to maintain it.

z31maniac wrote: Also, the "house owns you" theory comes from the idea that a home isn't an investment because of the money needed to maintain it.

Paying rent you cover the same costs plus a markup for the landlord. I should know, I'm a landlord. That said, it's not as much as many people think and there are a lot of people out there that have no business owning a house. If you're good with money and your hands, owning your own house works out very well in the end. If you're not, you can just end up taking a bath over and over again on emergency repairs and end up selling it at a loss because you haven't taken good care of it.

z31maniac wrote: And you still never even OWN the land, you have to pay rent to the gov't on it. Don't pay those property taxes and see how long you OWN the land. Also, the "house owns you" theory comes from the idea that a home isn't an investment because of the money needed to maintain it.

It's not rent to the government, taxes pay for the services to that piece of property.

The maintenance costs on a house could only exceed the investment value if you're completely incapable of doing anything for yourself.

Whoa, bringing this one back from the dead I see.

Trans_Maro wrote: The maintenance costs on a house could only exceed the investment value if you're completely incapable of doing anything for yourself.

True dat. So as an update, I'm in my new house now and the inspector this time did a way better job than the last one. But damn do people do stupid crap to their houses. For instance. this house had two water heaters, forty and thirty gallon units. Why anyone would think they need two water heaters in SOUTH FLORIDA for two people living in a house is beyond me, but I digress. So I removed the thirty gallon unit that was installed in the master bath closet, not a terribly hard job, I hate sweating pipes though, especially when they are near 2x4's. (Thing I learned: use a piece of roof flashing to keep from burning a hole in the lumber). Get everything hooked up and now the water is hotter than ever. How could this be? Well instead of running the hot water line from the forty gallon to the input of the thirty gallon, they ran a new cold line into the thirty gallon. Thus having to heat cold water twice, instead of running the hot in there and just reheating it. People amaze me sometimes.

Trans_Maro wrote:

z31maniac wrote: And you still never even OWN the land, you have to pay rent to the gov't on it. Don't pay those property taxes and see how long you OWN the land. Also, the "house owns you" theory comes from the idea that a home isn't an investment because of the money needed to maintain it.

It's not rent to the government, taxes pay for the services to that piece of property. The maintenance costs on a house could only exceed the investment value if you're completely incapable of doing anything for yourself.

So if I don't want the services I can stop paying?

t25torx wrote: But damn do people do stupid crap to their houses.

I would not buy a house from someone who did "stupid crap" to it. I'd rather have a poorly maintained piece of property (same with a car), rather than one that somebody who has no business doing the maintenance/repairs has attempted to do so.

I've lived in, renovated, and helped build many houses. The problems you guys are depicting are either through gross negligence, OR you are buying old houses (15+ years).

As for the PEX vs copper thing... lulz. PEX is the greatest invention since sliced bread. If you want copper, go right ahead, but there is zero wrong with PEX unless installed improperly. It's kind of like arguing rubber vs silicone vacuum lines, both will last a ridiculously long time under normal operating conditions.