Barndominium

I had plans / dreams / aspirations for a barndo or shop house for a long time. Now that I have a separated shop, I wouldn't go the other way. 

I could have music blaring, compressors running and unleash an unholy stream of chemicals and oils, and nobody would know but me. 

Pro tip: if building a separate shop, include a bathroom with water heater, laundry, shower, etc. I go out to the shop in normal clothes, change in to work duds and change back to the house clothes when done showering. If I run a load of laundry, I have freshly washed work duds that never stink up the house. 

I could legitimately live in my little shop, if it didn't smell like car projects.

I'm curious why a barndominium would be any different than a house with attached garage? I've never had a real problem with smells in the house with our 25x35 attached. 

I've thought about a hyper-efficient barndominium where you build a full house inside the "barn", where both are insulated and he house shares 2-3 exterior walls with the barn. Or buying a smaller warehouse and building a house inside that. Be like having a house in a bubble. 

bobzilla said:

I'm curious why a barndominium would be any different than a house with attached garage? I've never had a real problem with smells in the house with our 25x35 attached. 

I've thought about a hyper-efficient barndominium where you build a full house inside the "barn", where both are insulated and he house shares 2-3 exterior walls with the barn. Or buying a smaller warehouse and building a house inside that. Be like having a house in a bubble. 

This is my question, we're looking at building one on our land as an apartment for family members but I don't understand why it would be significantly worse if built to the same standard as a house.  My interest lies primarily in energy efficiency and maintenance efficiency for the structure. 

I was amazed at the cost of a pole barn. We are building (having one built)  30 x 50 with a 20 x 25 stub for office space/workshop. We ordered it Dec 2021, they will start it summer 2023. 10% down to get on the list. It will be sited over the brown dot (used to be a shrubbery- offending the Knights of Knicht)

No water or toilet, or I'd need to get a residential permit.

Just south of $300K. We sold a house to buy the barn, the Intergalactic Headquarters for Stupider Than We Look Racing

In reply to twentyover :

Holy crap!!

Im building a pole barn right now. 26x36. It's a shop, not a house.  With 12' ceilings and 312 SF of storage loft. 
 

$4700 for the entire package (structure and metal roofing). Add $3200 for the metal wall panels. Delivered in 2 weeks.  That's $8.44 per SF. 

I'll be doing the labor myself. 
 

$150 per SF??  Guess things are different in different parts of the country. 

Maybe I should go into the business of building pole barn shops for GRMers. 

bobzilla said:

I'm curious why a barndominium would be any different than a house with attached garage? 

Basically, there are no differences. Both have the same issues to deal with- fire separation, fumes, odors, noise. 
 

Bardominuims are often a BARN, with living space above. Barns don't have finished ceilings or fire separation, and an apartment over a shop space IS a risk. 
 

So, the basic concept is flawed. We build barn-like structures to save cost, and give inexpensive volume for things like shops and livestock. Adding the cost of a ceiling is odd to someone who is just trying to build a barn. 
 

Code officials are not excited about mixed use structures that are essentially barns. Houses have codes that require the fire separations to the garage already, so  nobody thinks they should save money by building something more like a barn. 

In reply to SV reX :

I see the issue... we don't do stairs so a loft above anything isn't an issue. My ideal version has a separate wall with ventilation from the house. Also insulated.  You'd have an exterior rated door seperating them.

In reply to bobzilla :

Here is an article that details the requirements in a house a little better:

Separation between house and garage

There are requirements for walls, doors, HVAC, etc. 
 

These things are all required in a house with an attached garage, so they are already in place. They are almost never taken into consideration in a barndominium. 
 

A barndo also often misses a few other things. For example, egress routes and smoke detectors. Sleeping rooms need 2 routes of egress. If a sleeping space is over a barn, there is often only 1 egress route, and it is stairs that go down through the barn. That means the exit is through the most at risk area. 
 

There are other issues too. For example, insulation in a metal building is a costly can of worms. 
 

So, it CAN be done, but often misses many major things, or costs a small fortune. 

In reply to SV reX :

yeah those are all things I would not do. Barn and house portion would have their own seperate HVAC units. Insulating would be done with the spray foam that many friends and co-workers have done to their pole barns for years. 

The way I would want it would literaly be a house, with "roof" inside the larger building. Oviously the roof doesn't need to be waterproof, bu sheeting and normal house type roof insulation. Exterior windows and doors like a normal house. 

In reply to bobzilla :

Which is fine. 
 

But I think it's pretty obvious that building a house inside a house will be more expensive. And spray foam is fantastic, but more expensive. 
 

People excited about building barns are convinced they are cheaper, and generally don't try to run up the cost. 

In reply to SV reX :

I'm under no illusion that this is cheaper. Don't even know that it's better. Just an idea I came up with that didn't involve lots of alcohol. 

Theoretically from a heating/cooling perspective it should be a lot cheaper. 

Here are a couple examples...

Every one of these is STUNNING. You can find pictures like this on every metal building supplier's website. But they all share a common Achilles heel. There is no fire separation between the living/ sleeping areas and the garage/ shop. 
 

(The last one COULD have separations, but it would be VERY costly)
 

It's very common with barndominiums. The temptation of the wonderful volume and high ceilings leads to stunning designs but often overlooks separations. 

In reply to bobzilla :

Yes. Building the way you are describing would be very efficient from an energy standpoint and for ongoing maintenance costs. 
 

But expensive to build. 

In reply to SV reX :

Ain't nothing free in life. You either pay it up front or long term. 

In reply to bobzilla :

That's true, but they are not necessarily equal. 
 

If you spend $50,000 extra to build a "house-in-a-house", it would take a long time to pay it back. 
 

My energy bill is about $200 per month. Let's say I saved 75% on my energy bill (unlikely). That means I would save $150 per month. It would take 28 years to break even. 
 

SV reX said:

"SOME"
People excited about building barns are convinced they are cheaper

There. Fixed that for ya!

Bob is probably not one of those. 
Im also not, which is why we decided to renovate where we are, instead of buying land in an area we like better. I'm way to poor to build what I wanted. 

SV reX said:

In reply to bobzilla :

That's true, but they are not necessarily equal. 
 

If you spend $50,000 extra to build a "house-in-a-house", it would take a long time to pay it back. 
 

My energy bill is about $200 per month. Let's say I saved 75% on my energy bill (unlikely). That means I would save $150 per month. It would take 28 years to break even. 
 

 

Ah, but if you also designed he "barn" portion to provide solar and wind power .... you could almost become self sustaining. Thats where I wanted to head. Our electric bill this time of year is $400 - ish, we'll average about $275/mo throughout the year. But cold months it's brutal. The wind up here on my frozen tundra is relentless and being total electric with a well it can get pricy. I'd love to be self sustaining and seld sufficient to the point of AES paying back a little with our overage. 

Now, that's not the norm. People aren't like me (thankfully). 

In reply to 03Panther :

Fair enough

SV reX said:

In reply to bobzilla :

That's true, but they are not necessarily equal. 
 

If you spend $50,000 extra to build a "house-in-a-house", it would take a long time to pay it back. 
 

My energy bill is about $200 per month. Let's say I saved 75% on my energy bill (unlikely). That means I would save $150 per month. It would take 28 years to break even. 
 

 

For me the target is lower upkeep, this is my retirement place I'm going to spend extra on wide doors for wheelchairs and walk in showers because I'm not doing this twice. I don't actually intend to earn a return on this one. I just know there'll come a point where I can't replace broken siding or repaint trim. What I'm looking for is something that falls apart slightly slower than me. 

dclafleur said:

SV reX said:

In reply to bobzilla :

That's true, but they are not necessarily equal. 
 

If you spend $50,000 extra to build a "house-in-a-house", it would take a long time to pay it back. 
 

My energy bill is about $200 per month. Let's say I saved 75% on my energy bill (unlikely). That means I would save $150 per month. It would take 28 years to break even. 
 

 

For me the target is lower upkeep, this is my retirement place I'm going to spend extra on wide doors for wheelchairs and walk in showers because I'm not doing this twice. I don't actually intend to earn a return on this one. I just know there'll come a point where I can't replace broken siding or repaint trim. What I'm looking for is something that falls apart slightly slower than me. 

House we are in was supposed to be that. Sadly things have changed around us. 

bobzilla said:

SV reX said:

In reply to bobzilla :

That's true, but they are not necessarily equal. 
 

If you spend $50,000 extra to build a "house-in-a-house", it would take a long time to pay it back. 
 

My energy bill is about $200 per month. Let's say I saved 75% on my energy bill (unlikely). That means I would save $150 per month. It would take 28 years to break even. 
 

 

Ah, but if you also designed he "barn" portion to provide solar and wind power .... you could almost become self sustaining. Thats where I wanted to head. Our electric bill this time of year is $400 - ish, we'll average about $275/mo throughout the year. But cold months it's brutal. The wind up here on my frozen tundra is relentless and being total electric with a well it can get pricy. I'd love to be self sustaining and seld sufficient to the point of AES paying back a little with our overage. 

Now, that's not the norm. People aren't like me (thankfully). 

Does your state offer free solar panel installation?   20 states do, I know Minnesota does. 
 It's  not really "free" you pay for them with your surplus energy.    But there is no out of pocket cost.   
        The rules here are you can only put them on a house you ( and the bank) own.  You need a south facing roof with a clear shot at the sun.  ( no trees or buildings blocking the sun). 

SV reX said:

Maybe I should go into the business of building pole barn shops for GRMers. 

Traveling barndominium builder. Might be a nice gig. I'll need something built in Texas in about 5 years. I would love for it to have a small living space; small bedroom or 2, full bathroom, and tiny kitchen. We have some land there that zoning allows such a building.

yupididit said:

SV reX said:

Maybe I should go into the business of building pole barn shops for GRMers. 

 

Traveling barndominium builder. Might be a nice gig. I'll need something built in Texas in about 5 years. I would love for it to have a small living space; small bedroom or 2, full bathroom, and tiny kitchen. We have some land there that zoning allows such a building.

Twentyover says his place is costing $150 per SF. I could be a traveling barndominium builder, and do pretty well at half that price. 
 

TX sounds like a good destination in about 5 years! 

Since we are discussing garage/houses. Has anyone turned a 24x24 garage into a house?  The plans I have looked at for a 24x24 house do not look different that a garage. Except the roof pitch/overhang and no garage door