Learn me: Compact tractors

I'm in the market for a small tractor to do some work around our property. Mostly cleaning up along the tree line, the ditches, moving a bit of dirt, nothing too heavy.

We have a small Kioti tractor at the club track and I've spent a fair bit of time on it. It would be fine for what I'm doing.

My buddy has a Kubota that's a little bigger, and a Cadillac compared to the Kioti.

The guy who leases some acreage from me has his Dad's old Ford 4000 gas, single arm machine that he'll give me for less than a quarter of what either one of the following 20yr old machines will cost. It's ugly, a bit of a project, but a heavy machine, though the better part of 60 years old.

The Kioti's are abundant, reasonable, and have a decent reputation. At this point I'm leaning toward a Kioti CX20 with KL120 bucket.

Any tips, hints, ideas or advice about what to do and what not to do?

I've had old iron (Massey 135 with a Perkins diesel, Ford gasser, etc) and a couple of comparatively newer compact tractors. Currently have a "New Holland" TC35. It's comparing apples and tennis balls between the two, in spite of them being somewhat close in power and dimensions on paper. The TC35 has a hydrostatic transmission which is far superior around the house to a geared trans, in my experience. On the other hand, it's pulling hydraulic power to move that won't be available to the loader or the rear arms, etc. For harder work like plowing/tilling/cultivating where you're running one speed, one direction, and need power to do it, an older "real" tractor would get my vote. 

Even bush hogging was "better" with my old Massey in terms of just setting the RPM, cut height and going...for as long as you wanted to go. With a hydro compact tractor, it's more prone to bog (just doesn't have the grunt) and the weight of the bush hog makes itself known in soft conditions or hilly stuff, where you really don't notice it behind a lower/heavier rig. The loader on my New Holland is indispensable, but fairly weak for its physical size. A bobcat will pickup considerably more, and in a tighter package, for example. 

I find the ergonomics of many of the older Kubotas I've run to be lacking. Long hood, loader mounted loader stick, vs integrated onto the tractor (so you're reaching up and out more, less natural). Think there's so many variables for usages and variables in sizes and flavors of tractors that you'd need to give more info and I could impart $0.03 more of my follies on tractors onto you, haha

+1 on the previous post. If you're plowing a field, a geared transmission is fine. For miscellaneous work around the property, hydrostatic is a life saver. So many things I'm doing around the farm that requires delicate movement and I find myself wondering how I would get it done if I had to slip the clutch, choose a gear, etc. for your use case, it really sounds like the hydrostatic is the way to go. also a big heavy machine is going to be pretty awkward for "around the small farm" chores.

i have a massey ferguson gc1725. have only had it for 3 years and 200 hours of use, but I have no complaints about it so far. at the time we bought it, it was significantly cheaper than the equivalent kubota, and the engine is still made in japan on the massey.

I maybe would've gotten the next size up, but that's more a function of us buying another 5 acres next to our place. It was more than enough for the original 5 acres we bought it for.

A middle ground between hydro and geared is the fantastic Yanmar "Power-Shift" trans.  I've had one for about 10 years.  It has gears, but you can shuttle through 3 forward, neutral, and reverse without clutching.  The clutch is used to change ranges- there's 3 of them.  My tractor is about a 1985 vintage.  Yanmar made the compact tractors for John Deere in the 1980's, so it's basically a very similar tractor, without the "green tax".

I do love the older, simple diesels.  They will run just about forever as long as they get oil changes every now and then.  And they're so efficient- I think I fill the tank on mine once in the spring and once in the fall, and I use it at least once a week.  A bucket with full power up and down is a must, and I added a tooth bar to mine to help with digging.  You need 4WD, and as much weight on the wheels as possible- fill them with coolant.  Unless you're mowing, make sure it's got bar (ag) tread tires.  

Mine:  https://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/002/3/9/2396-yanmar-ym186.html

That's a great website, BTW, for comparing specs on units.  

I had a Yanmar 1608 4X4 and it was terrific for pretty much anything I wanted to do - BUT - it was manual gears, not powershift. That coupled with no power steering made it a handful when I got a load in the bucket. I used to keep the very heavy brush hog on the back for ballast, and I had weights on the rear wheels too!

I gave it to my daughter and she found it just too much so she traded it in for a modern Massey Ferguson of about the same size, but it has a hydro transmission, power steering and she got a bucket loader on the front and a back ho on the back - she uses it all over her farmette now and it works a treat!

So I agree, the brand is less important than getting it equipped the way you need for your use. Massey, Kioti, Mahindra, Kubota are all well known brands, so shop around. I don't see the point of paying the "green tax" when there are other good options. I think the more important thing is - is there a dealer nearby that can service it or supply parts if needed. 

In reply to MiniDave :

Agreed.  Power Steering is a lifesaver.  It's not standard on the 186D I have, but mine had it, and I'm so glad it does.  There are kits available to add it, if you have a really nice tractor that ticks all the other boxes besides.  

Something else they don't tell you, all those hydraulic hoses will all crack and leak and burst, never at the same time, but at least one per year, and it will always happen on a Friday, 1/2 hour after the last hydraulic shop in town closes for the weekend.  And you have a major project planned for the tractor.  

Peabody said:

I'm in the market for a small tractor to do some work around our property. Mostly cleaning up along the tree line, the ditches, moving a bit of dirt, nothing too heavy.

We have a small Kioti tractor at the club track and I've spent a fair bit of time on it. It would be fine for what I'm doing.

My buddy has a Kubota that's a little bigger, and a Cadillac compared to the Kioti.

The guy who leases some acreage from me has his Dad's old Ford 4000 gas, single arm machine that he'll give me for less than a quarter of what either one of the following 20yr old machines will cost. It's ugly, a bit of a project, but a heavy machine, though the better part of 60 years old.

The Kioti's are abundant, reasonable, and have a decent reputation. At this point I'm leaning toward a Kioti CX20 with KL120 bucket.

Any tips, hints, ideas or advice about what to do and what not to do?

Trying to give you a little more exact answer here, since you proposed a specific model.  Looking at the Kioti website, and based on my own experience, I wonder if the CX2510 HST might be a good fit for your needs.  Check out their website's model comparator tool, you can see all the specs on the machine.  One thing I've found is that it can be possible to have too much machine- I like that mine is small and will fit places, while some larger machines,while they might be more capable, might not fit.  

Also, I believe the 24.5HP class is intentional, as above that the engines are required to have DEF for emissions.  

Shop for dealer support. If your brand isn't serviced within 3 hours, that would suck.

Some excellent points. I live right in the middle of farm central. Every make has a dealer within, at most, an hour, and in some cases you have your choice of several.  Retired millwright so repairs, hydraulics, hoses, etc. is my thing, no issues there. 
I had set my sights on the CX20 only because there are several near me at decent prices, so I thought I would start there. Looking at the numbers I agree, the 25 is probably the better choice. Manual trans vs hydrostatic, my preference would be manual trans. The club's tractor is manual, I do a lot of tight work with it and it's never a problem. I'd never driven a hydo machine until I drove my buddies recently. I think I prefer the manual.  
There are some pretty aggressive deals out there for new, too. Zero percent financing, 10% or more off. I may consider new, though new pricing will definitely limit my options on size. 
It's not like I'll be putting a crazy amount of hours on it.  I have 40 acres to look after, bordering a creek, and a few tree lines that haven't had any attention in years. And then there's the stuff around the house.  I'm up north right now but going to start visiting dealers and looking at used machines when I get back. 

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

Dead right on the hose failures.......can't count the number of times that happened to me. And I replaced ALL of them when I bought the tractor - but mine stayed outside year round and I think sun rot is a thing for those hoses unless you sheath them. I had one squirt me right in the face when I went to operate the bucket one time!

I had one thing in my favor, being in a rural area, the local auto parts shop could make me up a new hose as all the fittings were common.

Update.

Looking at a Yanmar SA424 tomorrow. It looks like it's bigger than the CK20 I was thinking about and a little smaller than the CK25 that was recommended. It wasn't specifically on my radar but it's a leftover from 2022, and a great deal. People seem to really like their Yanmars.

Thoughts?

I hear good things about yanmar engines.

MiniDave said:

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

Dead right on the hose failures.......can't count the number of times that happened to me. And I replaced ALL of them when I bought the tractor - but mine stayed outside year round and I think sun rot is a thing for those hoses unless you sheath them. I had one squirt me right in the face when I went to operate the bucket one time!

I had one thing in my favor, being in a rural area, the local auto parts shop could make me up a new hose as all the fittings were common.

On my YM186D there's a gigantic hose that must be 6 feet long, running from the back of the tractor aaaaaallllll the way up to the bucket.  One summer day a couple years ago I was grading up some dirt by the back of my garage, trying to get a swail going so the rainwater would run off, and that hose decided to let go.

Spectacularly.

I ended up with hot hydraulic fluid sprayed all over myself- and I mean, ALL over myself.  Head to hootus to foot, I was drenched.  There was a puddle of it in my lap.  I had to burn the clothes I had on and hop in the shower to get it all off.  But, like you, I've got a half a dozen shops within a 15 minute drive who will make me up a hose.  

I store my tractor outside, but its under a run-in, so it keeps the direct sun off of it, which helps.  I also put a flappy dealie on the exhaust pipe, both to keep the rain out and because I love the little flappy dealie bouncing up and down with the engine pulses at low speed.  It's such a quintessential part of the tractor experience.  

To the OP, I like my Yanmar, never heard anything bad about them.  If you get a good deal, and there's a dealer nearby, I'd say go for it.  Does it have ag-tread (bar) tires?  Unless you're mowing, you want them.  

I had my Yanmar for 18 years and the only repairs I ever did were fixing the aftermarket hoses for the front end loader......

I had no issues with the engine or gearbox or the  3 pt and drive. When I got it I did change all the fluids,  air filter etc. but it was 20 years old when I got it.

Well, that Yanmar deal didn't work out. Somebody didn't do their job, go figure.

Salesman: If it shows in stock, it's in stock. The second a machine is sold it comes out of inventory. Our system works really well that way.

Me: (the morning after we spoke) I want to give you a deposit over the phone, that looks like a great deal (it was).

Salesman: That's strange, it's not showing stock now.

Apparently their system doesn't work that well, he'd sold the last one the morning before we spoke. I'll find something, the extra time will give me opportunity to do my research. I have a lot better idea now than before, and most dealers have both leftover stock, and either 0% financing, or good cash deals. Unlike cars these days, you actually get a better price when paying cash.

Some of the "zero APR" deals have a finance fee up front which equals the amount  you would have paid in interest over the life of the loan. So its kinda a butt-berk. 

I've never seen that. That would be a pretty significant finance fee on a tractor.  I'm a cash purchase kind of guy, unless the financing works to my advantage. 
The good thing is, there are a lot of leftovers and some good deals out here. 

I got my tractor, a LS MT125, from Bruno's powersports in arkansas. Free shipping to my home in Florida. And, no sales tax since it was out of state.  The price they offered was a few thousand cheaper than the nearest LS seller and since i didnt have to pay tax, it saved even more. 
 

https://www.brunosfarmandlawn.com

Great 👍 

My FIL loans me his kubota b2650 when I need one and it has been great; it sips fuel and has juuust enough power for most of what I need to do. I ran into an issue two years ago where it wouldn't till an area of my yard to the depth I wanted in one pass so I switched to an old Oliver. But if I had the time to have made two passes it would have been fine. Love the hydro and it has a cab with heat and AC so snow blowing in wi Ted or dirt/stone moving in summer aren't miserable. I see the prices are a long way up from when he bought his and I'm not sure how I feel once you add the attachments you'd want about that price.

edit: I bought an old 6' box blade last night so we will see how it handles that today

it did fine

This thread got me kicking the tires to see what's out there.  I love my Yanmar but it's 40 years old and is kindof borderline for my use in terms of capability.  I found a few <10 year old machines out there for ~5k less than what they go for new.  What's interesting to me is the stats on these units- they're pretty much the same size as my YM186D, but, for example, the loaders can lift over 1000 lbs, whereas mine is rated at only 600 or so.  Since I do stuff like carrying engines and stuff with mine, that's the difference between borderline OK carrying a Volvo B20 and transmission, and being able to comfortably lift a 460 Ford.  

What I wonder, is how they managed to increase the bucket capacity without a larger tractor?  Better weight distribution?  My biggest issue was always the rear wheels lifting up.  

just picked this Kubota diesel subcompact up and thought of this thread. Wanted something that would cut the lawn and also had a rear PTO and three point so I could do odd jobs around the property. And I got it for less than a new riding mower at Home Depot 

To keep the rear wheels down on my Yanmar 1602D I put the brush hog on the back.....even with weights on the rear wheels it really limited what it could lift - the brush hog counter-ballanced it nicely.