Shedding the derailleur!

Do we answer bicycle (or push bike as I grew up knowing them) stuff here in sprockets?

Warning, typical Adrian long winded ramble on thoughts, musing and questions coming up.

I’m sick of crappy bikes. In our family we have a series of E36 M3 bikes. My wife actually has a nice bike. A non-suspended ‘Myata SportRunner’ ATB bike circa 89-90. Which despite being 25 years old is still a nice really bike. If had quality components so guess what, they still work!! The kids have had a series of crappy big box store bikes and I have an e-bay special double suspended alloy framed mountain bike, which while it works OK rattles, creaks and clanks down the road while never shifting right even after having it serviced and set up properly in the past. I’ve also got a freebee Columbia ATB bike which seems to be a really cheap Chinese crap bike using the name of another proud American bike manufacturer. The decal on the headstock says Columbia Westfield MA U.S.A. but not ‘made in’ I assume if I look further it will say made in China hidden somewhere. I was given it years ago for street use. Now despite the absolutely dreadful components on the bike, it’s actually really nice to ride as an urban / street bike which is exactly what I need for going to the library, nipping to the shops, going out for some exercise when I don’t want the impact of running. This is the specimen in question.

Notice the stunning bent bit of metal crank, the cheap riveted together front gearset, the paly doh derailleur and the wheels, those wheels!!! Agghhhhh I stopped using it a couple of years ago as it got to the point I was fed up of throwing inner tubes at the thing. I carefully de-burred the valve stem hole, I added extra layers to protect the spoke heads, but damn it no matter what I do it keeps eating inner tubes. No matter both wheels are bent as a thruppeny bit (English colloquialism for you).

Now a sensible person would buy a new bike, but I’m buying a new Novara (REI brand) hybrid bike for my daughter (I have $200 gift card for REI making a $600 bike a $400 purchase so it’s great value) so I’m flat out not going to buy another new bike. Instead I feel it’s time for some work on this comfy, but crappy bike.

My thinking is this. Everything on it is crap, utter total crap so buy some cheap parts of e-bay and re-furb. I sure as hell don’t need 18gears on a road bike, I’ve never needed that many on a mountain bike, I’m sure beneath hard core nutters no one needs that many gears. For simplicity I’m thinking of converting to a single speed (sure as hell not fixed gear) bike. Not for the cool hipster feel, I’m far too old, fat and I’m not into combat juggling so I can’t be a hipster, but for simplicity. I live in suburban SE Michigan so while not as flat as driving I75 through Ohio, it’s hardly hilly. Now the one thing I think I have going for me here is the drop out is almost horizontal

I think this means I can get away without a tensioner on the chain as seen below as part of this conversion kit

So, despite the fact I’m going to be out of town for several weekends, I can’t get enough time to work on the SAAB and the honey do list is as long as ever I feel the need for another part time project. There’s no hurry, I wouldn’t go and drop a couple of hundred $$’s all at once buy bits, I’d grab something this month, something next month etc. Strip the bike down, clean and re-paint the frame and do it bit by bit to be ready for next spring

The reason I’m asking here is that what I spend the money on. What parts are more important than others. I have no idea on bike parts. What I think I need is as follows:

1. Rear Conversion kit like this. . Is something like this worth $20 inc shipping
   
   Or should I spend more, say $35 on something like this
   
2. New front crank and single speed gear. Q. Are all cranks created equal? IS this worth $22
   Or should I spend $30 on something like this
   Or do I need to step up to a higher price point completely? In either case will this work with my frame? Are there different standards for my frame?
3. Wider single speed chain as opposed to an 6-7-8 speed chain

That’s all that’s actually needed for the conversion, but as I said the rest of the bike is crap. So I’d also like to get some other parts:

1. Wheels. Can anyone explain wheels to me? I know there are different width rear hubs 110mm, 120mm, 130mm & 135mm so I just need to make sure I get a wheel with the correct hub width for the rear, but beyond that what are the different types of wheel? Is something like this OK for $90 inc shipping, and WTF does ‘Wheel Master Wheelset 26X1.5 Alloy QR Shimano Rm40 8S Paralx’ actually mean?
2. Brakes. Those crappy brake calipers shown above bend and flex all over the place. Do I just replace with new Calipers like this for $8 inc shipping, which I assume will be just as E36 M3ty as what I have Or is the step up to something like this for $20 worth it? Or do I need to spend more?

Heck, do I even step up to getting a coaster hub and / or a pimpy bolt on front disc brake conversion?????

As you can see, I just have no idea on what is good and what is crap in the bike world. I have no ability to decipher the lexicon of random letters and numbers that seems to infest every single bike component out there. Anyone one to step in with some simple advice? I don’t need super pimpy ultra-light weight made of unobtanium with a NASA budget parts. I just want parts that will work, won’t flex, creak clack, moan rub as I rode alone. It won’t be just street use, I want to use it on some of the ex-rail road trails and hard packed gravel pathways, but I don’t intend it to be a mountain bike. I’d fix up my other POS for that.

Thanks as usual. See I said I was going to ramble on as usual didn’t I?

For brakes, I would stick to something decent like Shimano. I'd stay away from a coaster hub and just keep it simple. Look on CL for parts. Or I'd even look for an already converted single speed bike on CL. Granted, there are going to be some bad hack jobs but you might come across a good conversion at a good price.

Whats the issue with coaster brakes, just suckage, feel, effort, effectiveness?

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Whats the issue with coaster brakes, just suckage, feel, effort, effectiveness?

Same problem with motorcycle rear brakes... they work on the wheel that weight shifts away from by decelerating quickly so usually just end up skidding flat spots in the tire unless you have the presence of mind to throw your body weight way back in a hurried stop.

You would be better off with a good front brake and no rear brakes but coaster or "conventional" at the rear you still need the front to maximize braking in an emergency.

I think coaster brakes are okay for a beach cruiser putzing around on a boardwalk. I've had two single speeds in the past (one converted mountain bike and one converted road bike) and I just like the feel of regular brakes and also the ability to spin.

Coaster brakes honestly are for kids bikes. Even then I think they shouldn't be used. If old enough for coaster they should learn hand brakes.

You don't want to drop the coin on a new bike for yourself, but you do want to nickel and dime yourself on a crap frame old bike? It would still be really cheap and in your own best interest to do this project on something actually worthy of your time. Especially if you're going single speed(which I approve of in the flat Midwest).

Look around for a better frame/starting point. OR Wait for the sales that performance bike has semi-regularly and pick up one of their ready to go fully assembled decent single speed bikes. IIRC you can get one for $150-200 possibly less. Which when all said and done is probably less than what you would have invested in that Columbia.

Another thing... in the "flat mid-west" - don't you still want to go fast? I completely agree that no one needs 18 gears... but some gearing is nice. For instance... if you put a gear on there to do do 30mph you will need tree trunks for legs to get moving from a stop. If you put a gear that tops out at 5mph so you can pedal quickly away from a stop you will go nuts riding it. The "middle" of the range will suck at both ends.

As a compromise you could ditch the front and have a 6 speed to cover a wide range of cruising speeds and the occasional hill... or ditch the complexity at the rear and leave a triple up front to give you coarse adjustable 3 speed of a single rear gear.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Whats the issue with coaster brakes, just suckage, feel, effort, effectiveness?

Same problem with motorcycle rear brakes... they work on the wheel that weight shifts away from by decelerating quickly so usually just end up skidding flat spots in the tire unless you have the presence of mind to throw your body weight way back in a hurried stop. You would be better off with a good front brake and no rear brakes but coaster or "conventional" at the rear you still need the front to maximize braking in an emergency.

Deal. I'll look out for Shimano calipers then

clutchsmoke wrote: You don't want to drop the coin on a new bike for yourself, but you do want to nickel and dime yourself on a crap frame old bike? It would still be really cheap and in your own best interest to do this project on something actually worthy of your time. Especially if you're going single speed(which I approve of in the flat Midwest). Look around for a better frame/starting point. OR Wait for the sales that performance bike has semi-regularly and pick up one of their ready to go fully assembled decent single speed bikes. IIRC you can get one for $150-200 possibly less. Which when all said and done is probably less than what you would have invested in that Columbia.

I just don't want crap. I don't mind if I spend a few hundred $'s over the next six months bit by bit, I just want something that will work and work well. I haven't seen any cheap bikes that are worth it. And despite the cheap crap on this frame, it's actually a nice frame to ride. The size, the steering angle etc. just work for me. It's comfy, but inefficient right now. Looking at Performance bike their cheapest bikes don't seem any better than I will get for a similar spaced out investment.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Another thing... in the "flat mid-west" - don't you still want to go fast? I completely agree that no one needs 18 gears... but some gearing is nice. For instance... if you put a gear on there to do do 30mph you will need tree trunks for legs to get moving from a stop. If you put a gear that tops out at 5mph so you can pedal quickly away from a stop you will go nuts riding it. The "middle" of the range will suck at both ends. As a compromise you could ditch the front and have a 6 speed to cover a wide range of cruising speeds and the occasional hill... or ditch the complexity at the rear and leave a triple up front to give you coarse adjustable 3 speed of a single rear gear.

Yes, but then it wouldn't be a fixie!

In reply to Tom_Spangler:

I don't own plaid socks, but I am at least smart enough to know plaid is a garment not a pattern. The pattern is tartan! Also I hate needles and I'm not in to self mutilation so no cliched or ironic tattoos. I'm way too fat and drink beer not pabst blue piss. Sorry no hipster bike for me.

Okay. Wow. Give me a minute. There are some things you don't know but will need to know to do this, but it IS doable for reasonable money.

First the brakes - the Shimano break you have a picture of is a ROAD brake. You need MOUNTAIN brakes. Why? Road brakes use different leverage ratios so the brake levers pull less cable to make the brake work. They only work with drop bar type brake levers (unless you get into weird adapters which isn't necessary.) ROAD brakes also only work on narrow rims. Next problem - the last mountain bike brakes before everything went disk used two posts on the frame instead of a single overhead pivot and looked like this:

You can't use those either because you don't have those on your frame. You are stuck with the crappy single overhead pivot OR possibly finding some expensive cyclocross brake that has the single pivot and works with wider rims and tires. Your best bet may be crappy single pivots and find some better brake pads than the hard plastic they tend to come with.

Next, wheels. You have bolt on axles - AKA the rear is secured by two nuts on threaded axles. This is old tech and you will find it REALLY hard to find a nicer wheel set that uses that. The wheel you linked is set to use a modern Quick Release skewer (hence the QR in the name.) They are not backward compatible to your frame. Since you are okay with a single speed, this helps some, but almost all wheels I've seen for bolt axles are coaster brake. I'm sure there are replacements for what you have, but they won't be upgrades in quality. Best bet is to make friends with the local bike shop and find out what they can source for you. I'd expect to pay somewhere under $50 for the rear and under $40 for a matching front.

The rear wheel you end up with will determine how you set up the gears, but it probably won't be with either of the items you have pictured. Those are designed to work with newer style derailleurs and axles. Luckily, you probably will end up with a single speed wheel anyway, and I think you have enough axle slot to get the tension if you are careful. ALWAYS USE THE SINGLE OR THREE-SPEED CHAINS FOR THAT and not the 8+ speed chains. the 1/3 speed chains are thicker and don't stretch under high loads like the multispeeds will, plus they are designed to stay ON the gears instead of changing OFF the gears. I tried multispeed chains on a single and they suck, plus the others are cheaper.

Front cranks - it looks like the front crak on your bike is a 3-piece ore 1-piece crank that uses loose bealing s in little round cages and tightens with a big nut on one side. if this is the case, the only thing you can replace it with is a BMX crank of the same style for increase durability. The multi piece cranks you show are designed for frames with threaded bottom brackets, not the bearing races yours has. You can't use those. I did see adapters somewhere a while back but they were expensive.

I've looked at updating an old frame to modern riding spec like you are doing. It is possible but not easy or expedient. in the end I decided to rebuild another frame I had that was newer and still had available technology.

Sadly, this is the reason good bikes are good bikes. The technology involved stays around a lot longer because they are designed to be maintained instead of thrown away.

I hate to say it, but you may be better served by finding an older high end bike on CL or somewhere. I saw a Trek 930 locally for $200 that is about the same vintage and has a nice riding steel frame with replaceable components. You will easily spend that much to upgrade your frame.

ultraclyde wrote: I've looked at updating an old frame to modern riding spec like you are doing. It is possible but not easy or expedient. in the end I decided to rebuild another frame I had that was newer and still had available technology.

This is key, what technology is no longer supported? What parts can't I change or replace on this?

Further thoughts - coaster brakes are not that bad as long as they are set correctly and you have time to plan your stops. Think 4 wheel drums on an old Cadillac. As long as you think ahead, you're fine,but panic stops become....lively.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

ultraclyde wrote: I've looked at updating an old frame to modern riding spec like you are doing. It is possible but not easy or expedient. in the end I decided to rebuild another frame I had that was newer and still had available technology.

This is key, what technology is no longer supported? What parts can't I change or replace on this?

You can't get better brakes because your frame doesn't have the mounts. You can't get higher quality wheels because you frame is set up for threaded axles.

Replacing the crank with a stronger can be done but will take careful selection and may not be cheap.

Now, there may be adapters out there to help address the wheel/frame issue but I looked pretty hard a year or so ago and came up empty. Same goes for the brakes. My experience on adapters in the bike business is that they are frequently twice as expensive as any other part.

clutchsmoke wrote: You don't want to drop the coin on a new bike for yourself, but you do want to nickel and dime yourself on a crap frame old bike? It would still be really cheap and in your own best interest to do this project on something actually worthy of your time. Especially if you're going single speed(which I approve of in the flat Midwest). Look around for a better frame/starting point. OR Wait for the sales that performance bike has semi-regularly and pick up one of their ready to go fully assembled decent single speed bikes. IIRC you can get one for $150-200 possibly less. Which when all said and done is probably less than what you would have invested in that Columbia.

As much as I like the idea of building bikes and saving old frames, I really think you should listen to this. In addition to not being a very nice frame to begin with, there WILL be compatibility problems with the parts you want to put on (as U-Clyde pointed out).
I would either 1) buy a cheap fixie from bikesdirect or similar, or 2) find a frame from what was at one point a decent road bike and start with that.

To echo the others here--- I'd check Craigslist for good mid 90's bikes before spending money on an older-- crappier bike. CL is full of really nice bikes in good shape for under $200 (which is close to what you'll spend "uprating" your existing bike) Check CL in college towns-- as kids tend to dump their bikes at the end of the school year.

I picked up a very nice Bridgestone MB-3 last year of Chicago CL for $150. It's a great bike ($800 new) that needed nothing.

Okay, adapter to replace your single piece cranks to threaded bottom bracket - $24.95 plus shipping IF the frame dimensions will work - http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/opc.html (scroll down to "conversion" )Add the $30 crank you listed above (Because you need the cartridge bottom bracket which I don't think the cheaper crank includes) and you are over $60 with shipping.

Also according to Sheldon Brown, QR wheelsets can be made to work with bolt up frames....with some caveats. You may have to spread the frame to use newer hubs. Discussion here: http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html also, you

On that one I stand corrected. So, figure $100 for a wheel set once you bend the frame.

Center pivot, single side pull brakes are a tough one. Everything I can find as replacement parts are no better than what you have, although sometime new is enough of an improvement to matter. Figure $20-$30 for the set

Chain - $10 Pedals - $20 other minor bits - $20

Total $200 - $250 depending on how you shop it and how much you replace.

If you are determined to do it, it can be done. The parts to get it done will be break-even on buying an old high-end bike, but if you love the frame and it's worth the cost, do it.

BTW, if you aren't familiar with some of the parts and methods on bikes, Park Tool's website has free DIY videos that are really good.

EDIT: I'd love to see how the conversion actually goes.

In reply to ultraclyde:

E36 M3, well I told you I didn't know anything about bikes. I didn't know single and three piece cranks had different bottom bracket so you'd need an adaptor. Also had no idea that quick release and bolt on wheels were different. See this is why I started asking questions. This really means that it's not worth it. I mistakenly thought that all these things were common. So yeah, you lot are all correct, find a better bike to start with.

I figure for now I'll just remove the derailleur and run the chain between the two best gears and use it as is until I can find something else.

How close are you to Pontiac?

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/bik/4651020364.html - modern spec parts, steel frame, $50 Back when DB was still a good brand

Detroit Metro - http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/bik/4661967683.html - fairly late model Trek - aluminum frame but has front shock and seatpost shock for a nice ride - $200

When you need parts Adrian, let me know. I have a huge box of decent bike parts you can rummage through.

Like others have said, don't fix that bike up. It looks too small for you too. Look for a normal steel bike with a three piece modern crank. Try to get something with a cassette rear wheel rather than a freewheel if you're gonna convert to single speed.

Unless you find something that needs very little work, you can spend $200 easily just replacing parts and cables that are worn and broken.

Sadly I recall when my uncles made those at the factory in Westfeild....I had a hand-me-down one as a kid in bright Yellow.

In reply to bastomatic:

I may take you up on that at some time. But you guys have done a great job of convincing me not to flog a dead horse!!

ultraclyde wrote: How close are you to Pontiac? http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/bik/4651020364.html - modern spec parts, steel frame, $50 Back when DB was still a good brand Detroit Metro - http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/bik/4661967683.html - fairly late model Trek - aluminum frame but has front shock and seatpost shock for a nice ride - $200

That Diamondback in Pontiac looks awesome for $50. If it's still there after the weekend when I get back I'll call. Pontiac is only 10 miles from here.