2025 specialty class proposal: cash in the envelope

I am hopeful that (A) I can make it and (B) I should be able to fall under $2k all-in for 2024.  I've got the tires that will work in budget and some items like replacement seats that I can leave out if it helps me clear under the bar.

In my build thread for a LoCost 7, I posted what I paid for the frame and motors that I have. I'll be honest, I don't know much about the ins-and -outs of previous Challenges, but I assumed it was $2023 spent. I don't understand the recoup portion because in theory, you could have a negative $ build. I bought the old Mongrel Miata which was a 302 powered Miata which had to be a near $10,000 build, but still competed and won in the early 2000's.

I would be able to build a LoCost 7 for the $$$ involved, but someone please answer my rookie questions:

1. Do travel cost get added to parts costs? I paid $200 for a partial chassis and an additional bunch of tubing. I drove 3 hours to get it, so in theory I burned a tank of gas and bought myself lunch on the road. Is it a $200 chassis or $285 chassis for budget purposes.

2. I'm lucky enough to have a full fabrication shop to build "stuff". When welding together the rest of the chassis, what gets counted? MIG wire, MIG gas, grinding discs, cut-off wheels, bandsaw blades, notcher hole saws???

3. I have so many old race car and project car parts on shelves, pallet racking and in bins that I couldn't tell you when I bought or acquired them or how much if anything they cost me. For example, I have a gas tank from one of my old 7 project cars. It's been in the garage and has been moved around for 20+ years. I tried selling it for $100 years ago and had no takers. I plan to use it in this car, so what value would it be assessed? How about an old pair of NA Miata front spindles? Likely they were spares from an old Spec Miata that never got used. I guess I could find out the current going rate for them, but since I have them 15 years or better should the price be less or more than current market value.

4. Am I thinking too deeply into this? We are also accumulating parts for a Lemons build and their "$500 race car build" ideal is about as unrealistic as can be. 
 

Thanks for answering my dumb questions, but I need to decide whether to spend the time to build a Challenge car, build a nice street car or just sell the whole project down the road.

In reply to lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter) :

The tools you use to build it? Not in the budget.

In reply to lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter) :

1) No

2) Just the MiG wire

3) FMV (fair market value). Either find and average three ads for a similar part, or propose a value here and see if five other members will agree to it.

4) Overthinking a bit, but better that than showing up with an illegal car because you didn't know better. Keep asking questions and read the rules.

Edit: Didn't the question of Locost eligibility already get answered elsewhere by Tom?

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) and lotusseven7:

and remember, if you pay for metal by weight, don't forget to subtract what you remove when you cut a hole.  ;-)

What about the vehicle tax/title/registration fees and sales tax on parts?  Are we including those?  It doesn't add up to much, but I already took all that off for the official worksheet and I'm lazy.

wae said:

What about the vehicle tax/title/registration fees and sales tax on parts?  Are we including those?  It doesn't add up to much, but I already took all that off for the official worksheet and I'm lazy.

Im leaving sales tax on my budget sheet, but not tax/title/tag. We never made an "official" call on it though 

edit: thinking through this and talking it over woth the other illuminati in foil hats, the whole premise has been "if its on the car, its in the budget. No exemptions, no recoup". Sales tax, title and tag, etc to be included, not exempt. 

which means i need to find room in my budget.....

Dusterbd13-michael said:

wae said:

What about the vehicle tax/title/registration fees and sales tax on parts?  Are we including those?  It doesn't add up to much, but I already took all that off for the official worksheet and I'm lazy.

Im leaving sales tax on my budget sheet, but not tax/title/tag. We never made an "official" call on it though 

 

edit: thinking through this and talking it over woth the other illuminati in foil hats, the whole premise has been "if its on the car, its in the budget. No exemptions, no recoup". Sales tax, title and tag, etc to be included, not exempt. 

which means i need to find room in my budget.....

Well, then I guess it's a good thing that I never got around to transferring the title for the car into my name!  Looks like I'll continue to procrastinate that until mid-April!

No plate on vehicle equals nothing in budget, even if it has one. I can only say it shouldn't because even with low to no value in these treasures we attempt to race in, how a state handles the transaction is so varied. I'd say a flat $10 title fee everyone should budget for, given the previous. I know my plate in TN with title transfer is like $75 plus 7% tax. Michigan would be whatever they want to charge, I don't know atm, but then your tax is based off the original msrp and a sliding scale for how old it is, unless classified for historical plates iirc.

the title thing comes down to is the challenge for street cars or production based race cars?  If you believe it is an event for race modified street legal cars only then TTL should be included as they are required to make the vehicle "Street Legal".  If you believe the event is for 4 wheel production based race modified cars and street legality is unimportant then it should not be included as it is not requried to compete.  

To me the rules do not require title/registration for the vehicle an therefore it should not be considered "on the car" as you could easily remove that cost by removing the plates for the event.  

Title fees imply something much bigger...

It eliminates the ability to start with a car with a branded title (or none). 
 

Cars without titles can be purchased for less than full title cars.  A rule like that forces the budget up.

The event has no component that has anything to do with street driving.  It allows cars that can't be driven on the street. 
 

If taxes are included, there is also a big disadvantage for cars purchased in states that assess transfer taxes based on assessed valuations rather than actual purchase prices.  I once bought a non-running car in GA for $500, but was charged $1100 in taxes because they assessed taxes based on their valuation tables, not on actual purchase price.  
 

AL is another bad example.  If I buy a car in AL that has been sitting for several years without taxes being paid on it, the taxes due at the tag office will include any outstanding unpaid taxes incurred by the previous owner.

I don't think there is a fair way to include the cost of tag/taxes.

I'll say it once more simply for the folks in the back of the class. It's a $2,000 subclass with no exemptions no recoups no trades. If it's on the car it's in the budget. If you don't play it and don't title it you don't have to worry about those fees. If you had to pay taxes when you bought your parts it needs to be in the budget. If you don't like it or want to argue with it maybe this subclass isn't for you. This kind of argumentation and nitpicking is exactly what this class was proposed to get around. To bring the fun and simplicity back so guys didn't have to overthink what's exempt and what's not and how to be competitive. It's meant to be a true $2,000 car. Not an accounting exercise. I've said my peace and I'll bow out now. Y'all do what you want.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

But what about my Raser 4000xi that I want to argue the rules about so that the class can fit my needs instead of you know just showing up and having fun with a "I spent $2000 with no exemptions" car?

if the car has been my daily for 5 years, do i include all 5 years registration fees in my budget?

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

if the car has been my daily for 5 years, do i include all 5 years registration fees in my budget?

Of course not.  It's established that if something wears or breaks during normal operation then a replacement for like is acceptable. 

Edit: unless that rule changed when I wasn't looking 

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

if the car has been my daily for 5 years, do i include all 5 years registration fees in my budget?

No but if you take 5 years to build it you need to prorate what it cost to store in the garage.

In reply to Stampie :

because you said "if...", i know you're not talking to me.

Stampie said:

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

if the car has been my daily for 5 years, do i include all 5 years registration fees in my budget?

No but if you take 5 years to build it you need to prorate what it cost to store in the garage.

Solid burn, branch. 

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

Stampie said:

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

if the car has been my daily for 5 years, do i include all 5 years registration fees in my budget?

No but if you take 5 years to build it you need to prorate what it cost to store in the garage.

Solid burn, branch. 

It really was. I just didn't want to tell him.

So a couple things...  (1) Sorry to have kicked a hornets' nest a bit there.  I was just working on the budget spreadsheet a little bit and wanted to make sure it was all correct.  I'm not here to argue an unofficial ruleset - just wanted to make sure I was compliant.  But, and that brings me to (2) I am further stupid because I didn't realize until a few minutes ago that this is for 2025 not 2024.  I now see that you cleverly hid that information right in the title of the thread where no one would ever look for it.

In reply to wae :

I was planning on running it in 24 as well as a demonstration. Would love to have you. 

Sadly I'm out for this year.  Got the car fired last night so that was a major win.  With other cool things to do for the next three weekends, not enough time between now and then to get it finished to the level it needs to be.  Shame, too, because I would've been ok on the budget side.

In reply to glueguy (Forum Supporter) :

The class was intended for next year. I'm just an overachiever and coming early. I also hope this is like the Aristocats was and spans multiple years

No plate on the car at the event means no fees in budget. Taxes are not a part on the race car so, not in the budget. Seems simple. And I REALLY like simple. 
I recently bought an Audi for under $2000. If I chose to not title and tag it, there would be no taxes, no fees, nothing but the cash I handed him (I'd be violating the "don't be a dick rule if I tried to lie about that amount) Go straight to the challenge, and race it for under $2000 all in. 

If it's on the car, it counts. If its not, then it doesn't. 
If someone chooses to include something that is not on their car, into their budget, that's up to them. But that does not set a precedent. 

I can build a slow car for under $2000. A competitive one? Not even close.