I HATE THIS !!

dculberson wrote: Wanted ads don't belong in the cars for sale section. They belong in the wanted section.

No sheit??? lol... On CL that section has a price box too. Last time I checked some type of number has to be inserted. Is it beyond comprehension that many other factors would need to be known before a price? And that a price might vary a great deal dependent upon condition etc? And that a buyer might be quite open to a wide price range??

metalman wrote:

dculberson wrote: Wanted ads don't belong in the cars for sale section. They belong in the wanted section.

On CL that section has a price box too. Last time I checked some type of number has to be inserted.

Like I said...I think there's a misunderstanding. No price is required when I post on CL.

If you don't have or know a price, don't put in a price. That's not confusing, obscure, or difficult.

You don't have to put in a price. There are tons of ads with no price.

In reply to metalman:

I've got no complaint with you putting in the effort to take advantage of those ads. But I certainly wouldn't mind if I could be left to express my desire for people to be direct and clear without getting called a bunch of names.

I'd like to think my option to not talk to the folks who place sloppy ads is legitimate. I save the aggravation, and leave those deals for you. You can call me lazy for passing over a segment where there are going to be deals sometimes, but I just don't have the time right now to deal with six wingnuts who are incredibly proud of their rusty socket set for every one person who's clearing out grandad's Snap-On collection and just can't be bothered to store anything...

The core here for me is that if they leave the price field blank, you can haggle with them and I can ignore them. If they put arbitrary fractions of the price in there, I have to figure out some arbitrary cutoff and/or wade through a bunch of listings I'm not interested in. I'm not sure how anybody is better off with that approach, excepting of course that you'd have more competition for the deals if stuff was easier to find...

CL's a pretty simple system. Right now it's a bit gummed up by people who think they're getting themselves a little advantage at the expense of the system working well for everybody. That kind of things always chafes just a bit.

And sometimes the price really is $1, just to get the POS out of the owner's yard. They just want it gone. From a cast iron stove to a "junker" car. Every now and then a bargain is found. Granted it's rare, but so are real bargains.

Agreed, it's a pain, but, it's not that hard to go to the next item up for sale.

dculberson wrote: If you don't have or know a price, don't put in a price. That's not confusing, obscure, or difficult. You don't *have* to put in a price. There are tons of ads with no price.

Exactly, you dont have to enter a price and/or the price box is free text, you can put OFFER in ther or something else. Posting for $1 when you aren't selling for $1 starts me off feeling you are dishonest and its unlikely my impression will improve through negotiations.

JThw8 wrote:

metalman wrote: 1. List of parts/items etc. 2. Seller seeking offers 3. Want to buy

List of parts/items - terrible way to sell things, list them all individually and get better results from a search.

O' really???????? Terrible???? Do you have much experience selling car parts on CL or other similar sites??? I do. And lists actually work quite well. I have done tens of thousands of transactions....going back 35+ years, not only since early internet days and BBS days but in publications like Hemmings etc etc etc as well.

Now, there is nothing wrong with advertising individual items, that works too, especially for special items. But some of us have thousands items....or perhaps even just hundreds.

Bottom line, rather then complain about how a seller chooses to list their item...TALK to them, you never know what they might have that you might need.

ClemSparks wrote:

metalman wrote:

dculberson wrote: Wanted ads don't belong in the cars for sale section. They belong in the wanted section.

On CL that section has a price box too. Last time I checked some type of number has to be inserted.

Like I said...I think there's a misunderstanding. No price is required when I post on CL.

Well to be honest I hadnt checked that recently. CL didnt use to accept anything in that box except numbers, hence thats why I never really put any emphasis upon so called $1 price tags....I only looked at it as need to TALK to seller....which is my first rule of biz anyway.

That whole $1 thing pisses me off and I flag like a mother berkeleyer.

ransom wrote: In reply to metalman: I've got no complaint with you putting in the effort to take advantage of those ads. But I certainly wouldn't mind if I could be left to express my desire for people to be direct and clear without getting called a bunch of names.

Fair enough...although I didnt intend to call anyone specifically a name, merely describe a behavior...and use some colorful descriptions of said behavior. Sorry if you felt offended.

Bitching about how ads are posted is a complete and total waste of time. Its highly counterproductive. Its worthless really. It seems to be an internet phenom as well.

The best scenario in the free market system for both bargain hunters and item sellers is a system which allows great freedom in how things are posted/listed.

Its the sellers job to convey whatever they wish, and the buyers job to sort through the chaff to get the wheat. Dont EVER expect sellers to do your work for you.

metalman wrote: O' really???????? Terrible???? Do you have much experience selling car parts on CL or other similar sites??? I do. And lists actually work quite well. I have done tens of thousands of transactions....going back 35+ years, not only since early internet days and BBS days but in publications like Hemmings etc etc etc as well.

And therein lies the problem. You are still thinking with a print mentality where your eyes are the only search engine you have.

But for those of us a little more used to dealing in the digital age properly itemized single listings go a long way to speed up searching through automated means

That's not to say a properly formatted and well written list of parts can't be effective but rarely is that the case.

The aforementioned problem of overused keywords makes searching even more of a problem as well. Which then means reverting back to the manual search. But if the title of the ad doesnt give a good idea of what's inside (ie "A buncha car parts for sale") then its probably not going to catch my attention or get me to click to open it.

You seem to really be up in arms about all this. The truth is alot of us just dont like it and while it may work for you it doesn't for us.

Generally people who cant take the time to put together a proper ad are not worth dealing with for car or parts sales so I skip them over. There's information and availability overload out there these days and if you want to compete you have to look at what gets the attention of the customer and what gets a flag. There's a large group here telling you we flag these down. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it, but it is the way it is.

I understand both sides of the issue, it's just (in this case) a waste of my time emailing some fool that won't own up to the asking price. Call it bait & switch, call it offensive, I'm calling it a waste of my time.

YMMV.

JThw8 wrote:

metalman wrote: O' really???????? Terrible???? Do you have much experience selling car parts on CL or other similar sites??? I do. And lists actually work quite well. I have done tens of thousands of transactions....going back 35+ years, not only since early internet days and BBS days but in publications like Hemmings etc etc etc as well.

And therein lies the problem. You are still thinking with a print mentality where your eyes are the only search engine you have.

LOL...your presumption that I am not internet savy makes me laugh. This is what I am saying, I dont know how to say it without being blunt.....I have likely done more transactions both BUYING and SELLING then the combined total of those complaining here. MOST of that is internet related, but some extends to printed media too.

I am not 'up in arms'...I just find the whole whining thing about how sellers post to be an absolutely counterproductive waste of time. Period.

Some will get this, many dont....and wont.

914Driver wrote: I understand both sides of the issue, it's just (in this case) a waste of my time emailing some fool that won't own up to the asking price. Call it bait & switch, call it offensive, I'm calling it a waste of my time. YMMV.

Here's the thing...if youre interested in the item being offered, why not TALK to the seller?? If you have and he is a total douche jerk thats another issue. Just putting $1 in his ad line doesnt make him one. Dont ASSume it to be so either.

Here is an example: I saw an ad for a 69 Dodge, best offer....which is just about the sum total of info given. Good ad? No. But WHO CARES!! Do I like a 69 Dodge?? Well that depends on a lot of factors. Sooooooooooo I called the seller. Turns out he has a 1 of 60-70 such examples left in existence muscle car. He knows what it is, and so do I. He isnt sure what he'll take for it, he just needs money. After talking to him awhile I get him to put a number on it...5k. I tell him the car is worth much more then that but I dont have that much in my pocket. Remember? I didnt know what 69 Dodge was in question when I called. Fast forward a month. The seller contacts me BECAUSE I TALKED respectfully TO HIM instead of bitching about his ad. He says he needs money bad...wants to know what I will give for his car. I say 5k is more then reasonable, I just dont have it right then...and wont insult him with any lower offer. He says "Well, how much do you have right now today...this afernoon?" I tell him I have $2500....which is the truth...I had just bought a house...and I admit that is an absolute insult to him. His car is worth FAR more. He says, 'None of that matters...I asked you...and I need the money and youre the only person who actually talked to me and knew what this car was'...and sold it to me.

That car was worth 12.5k at that time as is.

None of that (and numerous other such transactions I have done) would EVER happen if I bitched about his sheitty ad or didnt TALK to him. Just sayin'.

metalman wrote: Fair enough...although I didnt intend to call anyone specifically a name, merely describe a behavior...and use some colorful descriptions of said behavior. Sorry if you felt offended.

No way! I might have a slight preference for avoiding unnecessarily "abrasive" language (pun fully intended) in the name of calm discourse, but I'm not offended. I wish people wouldn't jump to offence so quickly in general...

Bitching about how ads are posted is a complete and total waste of time. Its highly counterproductive. Its worthless really. It seems to be an internet phenom as well.

Can't really argue there, though I think it's a reasonable wish, and the occasional thread in off-topic where a bunch of us vent about the frustration isn't the end of the world.

The best scenario in the free market system for both bargain hunters and item sellers is a system which allows great freedom in how things are posted/listed.

I'm not so sure. Given the massive numbers of buyers and sellers, I tend to think the system which most effectively puts them in contact with each other would be the best. You'd get the clearest picture of the market as both a buyer and as a seller. Of course, you specified bargain hunters and not just buyers in general, and certainly bargain hunting relies to some extent on the difficulty of finding market value.

Its the sellers job to convey whatever they wish, and the buyers job to sort through the chaff to get the wheat. Dont EVER expect sellers to do your work for you.

You're absolutely right in terms of the reality of finding the best deals. That being said, it takes two to tango (or transact), and if the seller wants to sell, it could pay off for them to take the time to string together a coherent description of their item.

Moreover, my main gripe isn't that the seller of item A isn't making it easy for me, it's that the sellers of items B-Z have all listed their items so they come up in my search for A, when I have no interest in B-Z under any circumstances. Okay, if I got a great deal on M, maybe, but you get my point... (EDIT: okay, I griped enough about the $1 prices I'll have to acknowledge that I was after making that point, too)

I have found that as a both a seller and a buyer a mostly unrestricted system is best for just that...putting people in touch with each other.

People tend to want each system tailored to their own desires or whims. Some even want to make all kinds of idiotic requirements that only serve to lessen the amount of ads and activity. If one needs such a specialized site CL isnt the place. There are all kinds bitchy whiney sites and forums for that...with all kinds of little stupid rules to go with them, even post count requirements and other stupid crap....and none of them have the activity that CL does. The fun of the car hobby is found in many ways....one is the search...or the acquisition...another can be the sale...and the in between. How we each do that should be best left to our own choice. I dont want any of that controlled by do gooders or spoon fed to me.

Well...I wasn't offended until you DID direct negative comments at me. Not to say I'm that offended, but I don't take kindly to being called narrow minded based on a simple debate over the internet that has very little to do with the "grand scheme of things" so to speak.

Frankly, the converstation started out as a general comiseration about how things could be better. Then someone came in with inflamatory remarks, and here we are. Maybe you don't complain to people about their classified ads...but you sure did complain about some posts on a thread on the internet.

I score those kind of deals all the time also. No need to throw weight around, I'm sure it's not as often for me as it is for you (I do it for a hobby/income supplement and not for a living). Yeah...I've scored good deals on poorly worded ads. No, I'm not disrespectful to these folks. But then again...I suppose that shouldn't be a big surprise as it could have probably been deduced from my behavior as a poster here as well...

Clem

ClemSparks wrote: Not to say I'm that offended, but I don't take kindly to being called narrow minded based on a simple debate over the internet that has very little to do with the "grand scheme of things" so to speak.

My remarks were related to your expressed views on THIS specific subject....which I did find to be narrow minded. Nothing more was implied or intended.

I suppose when you put it that way, you're right. When it comes to items listed for $1 that are actually being sold for much more, I am narrow minded. I offer no apologies for this...

...because I'm right.

Clem

metalman wrote:

914Driver wrote: I understand both sides of the issue, it's just (in this case) a waste of my time emailing some fool that won't own up to the asking price. Call it bait & switch, call it offensive, I'm calling it a waste of my time. YMMV.

Here's the thing...if youre interested in the item being offered, why not TALK to the seller?? If you have and he is a total douche jerk thats another issue. Just putting $1 in his ad line doesnt make him one. Dont ASSume it to be so either. Here is an example: I saw an ad for a 69 Dodge, best offer....which is just about the sum total of info given. Good ad? No. But WHO CARES!! Do I like a 69 Dodge?? Well that depends on a lot of factors. Sooooooooooo I called the seller. Turns out he has a 1 of 60-70 such examples left in existence muscle car. He knows what it is, and so do I. He isnt sure what he'll take for it, he just needs money. After talking to him awhile I get him to put a number on it...5k. I tell him the car is worth much more then that but I dont have that much in my pocket. Remember? I didnt know what 69 Dodge was in question when I called. Fast forward a month. The seller contacts me BECAUSE I TALKED respectfully TO HIM instead of bitching about his ad. He says he needs money bad...wants to know what I will give for his car. I say 5k is more then reasonable, I just dont have it right then...and wont insult him with any lower offer. He says "Well, how much do you have right now today...this afernoon?" I tell him I have $2500....which is the truth...I had just bought a house...and I admit that is an absolute insult to him. His car is worth FAR more. He says, 'None of that matters...I asked you...and I need the money and youre the only person who actually talked to me and knew what this car was'...and sold it to me. That car was worth 12.5k at that time as is. None of that (and numerous other such transactions I have done) would EVER happen if I bitched about his sheitty ad or didnt TALK to him. Just sayin'.

Ease up there. You want to argue, find a nice VW or Honda site.

Yeah, put LOL after every remark and that makes it OK.

I'm out.

metalman wrote:

JThw8 wrote:

metalman wrote: O' really???????? Terrible???? Do you have much experience selling car parts on CL or other similar sites??? I do. And lists actually work quite well. I have done tens of thousands of transactions....going back 35+ years, not only since early internet days and BBS days but in publications like Hemmings etc etc etc as well.

And therein lies the problem. You are still thinking with a print mentality where your eyes are the only search engine you have.

LOL...your presumption that I am not internet savy makes me laugh. This is what I am saying, I dont know how to say it without being blunt.....I have likely done more transactions both BUYING and SELLING then the combined total of those complaining here. MOST of that is internet related, but some extends to printed media too. I am not 'up in arms'...I just find the whole whining thing about how sellers post to be an absolutely counterproductive waste of time. Period. Some will get this, many dont....and wont.

I was by no means implying that you weren't net savvy just that you think in a print media way. Most CL posters do. Still abbreviating things to save "word costs" etc.

In fact I will say Im probably the anomoly rather than the norm, most people dont think of data in the same way that programmers and database admins do. I can use the same google as my wife and find a result in 1/2 the time, not because she's not internet savvy, because she's not data minded. Its probably more of a curse than a blessing because it makes erroneous data issues such as are being discussed here a major hindrance to me.

Im glad it works for you though.

JThw8 wrote: Want to buy - Theres a whole section for this, wanted ads in anything but the wanted cagegory get flagged for miscategorized.

I disagree. I've never looked at the WTB section. I cruise the Auto Parts section, frequently. I saw a 'wtb' for an item that I had tried to sell several months ago, unsuccessfully. Two hours later, I was happy, poster was happy and I had reclaimed free space in my shop.

In reply to 914Driver:

So sorry, if you wanted an internet buddy reach around I am not your guy. I will bluntly and honestly tell it anyone like it is, anyone that has met me can likely attest. I presumed there to be many car guys here like myself who expect to do their own homework by sifting through all manner of strange ads and actually TALKING to people. I know there are some here because I have met some of them.

Honestly, my example to you was a good one of what really nice things can happen when you dont presume anything about a seller based solely upon his/her ad, and not an 'argumentative' one.

As I said before....some will get what I am saying, ...others will stubbornly refuse and continue to whine, bitch, and moan about nothing while the rest of us continue to buy and sell.

RealMiniDriver wrote:

JThw8 wrote: Want to buy - Theres a whole section for this, wanted ads in anything but the wanted cagegory get flagged for miscategorized.

I disagree. I've never looked at the WTB section. I cruise the Auto Parts section, frequently. I saw a 'wtb' for an item that I had tried to sell several months ago, unsuccessfully. Two hours later, I was happy, poster was happy and I had reclaimed free space in my shop.

WTB ads actually do best in a F/S section. The reason? This: "I've never looked at the WTB section"....and thats true of many people. But, those same people often do peruse the F/S ads...and when/if they spot someone wanting something they have they may just contact them and end up happy like you did.