'87 4000cs quattro Challenge Build

(09/28/12) Found this little issue while replacing the CV axle that didn't even work last week To his credit the previous owner told me about a broken motor mount when I purchased the car. My friend and I inspected both mounts the night I bought the car and couldn't find a single issue. Had we looked deeper at the trans mounts we might have noticed this. I never felt any i'll effects of the broken trans mount thru the 9 months of ownership which is kinda surprising. A testament to the cars rigidity. . . at least that's what I'm calling it

much better that trans is in for a deep cleaning when the turbo swap goes down

(10/28/12) This summer I picked up an 80's style Thule roof rack for the very gr price of. . . free. first order of business was to shorten the gutter clamps. I like to keep my doors as functional as possible Then I remembered that I always hate how things look when cross bars stick way out on the roof of a midsized car Some square tube sectioning was the next step After that it was finally time to refinish this ugly, but perfectly functional piece. I went back and forth on the best low buck solution here. . . ended up settling on some 3M undercoating. That purchase put my current roof rack investment at a whopping $8.73! I dont know what model would be a replacement for this over today's counter but I'm willing to bet it's $200+ for something that looks almost as good as this I topped it off with a brand new Thule flat top 6 because I'm a purist like that Diggin the GRM banner also, don't suppose that thing is challenge budget deductable?? I wouldn't wanna scrape it off

CarKid1989 wrote: i used to think these cars were so ugly and had no potential... you single handedly changed every bit of thinking i had about these audis. Well, very well done. I think is a very neat project. Also a big fan because the body/ exterior visuals are mostly stock but underneath

I think the exact moment that turned me into a 4000 fan was when I read about the factory lockers on a consol switch. . . with indicator!! That has got to be the coolest sedan feature in the history of mankind. . . to me the biggest downfall of the car is the lack of power, so why not replace the engine with the turbo version that should have been on the option list from the factory? That has always been the dream. Passed on many 4k's over the years, I'm one of those guys who really doesn't need another project. . . then the car I had my eye on for as long as i knew what they were became available. . . . turbo 5cyl included. . . it worked out well because commuting the rocky mountain corridor of I-70 didn't seem like the right job for a freshly restored 280Z. . . A budget priced quattro feels right at home there. . . . that was my winning argument with myself.

absolutely love these cars, great to see one getting a new lease on life and having a good time with it. i've always heard they're built really stout, its just some of the nickel-and-dime knicknacks that get most owners frustrated.

put an exhaust on it! love that 5 cylinder wail...

ScottyB wrote: absolutely love these cars, great to see one getting a new lease on life and having a good time with it. i've always heard they're built really stout, its just some of the nickel-and-dime knicknacks that get most owners frustrated. put an exhaust on it! love that 5 cylinder wail...

Agreed. seems like the plastic parts (as with most german cars of any era) are the weakest which in turn makes them harder to find and more expensive. But the drivetrain can soak up plenty of power in mostly stock trim. . . seems like a good recipie for a challenge build.
As for the exhaust, we are deffinetly on the same page. I'm planning on bending my own 2.5 inch by way of a harbor freight bender and alot of sand packing. I can't imagine buying a mandrel bent setup from a company like 2bennet for a whopping $1495. . . . . thats insane considering what I paid for the entire car with it's stack of parts. It is awesome that companys like 2b are making parts for this oddball but I can't imagine they sell very much of it at those prices.

yup, forget that pricing. you've got 034motorsport as well which is an awesome outfit too. but i like that the whole point is to stay grassroots and try the cheap alternatives to get what you want. that's a good challenge with these cars and it looks great so far.

That pretty much brings this thread up to current status. I forgot to mention I replaced all 4 balljoints back in september

Then right after christmas I tore down that 10vt engine that has spent the last 10 years or so sliding around on shop floors belonging to the previous owner. . . It's funny actually, he had that engine tucked under his workbench for so long, His two sons and I (best friends since 3rd grade) threatened to just throw it in one weekend without him knowing but it's a damn good thing we never attempted that feat. . . during tear down it became rather obvious this poor little KH had been run low on oil. the appetizer, a slightly galled rear cam journal

with two sides of piston skirt damage on #3 & #4 and the "main" course . . . main bearings that were set on broil and almost forgotten about.
Most of the engine is still saveable, but this new knowlage almost had me ready to scrape my plate for a more modern powerplant. . . thats when the project took an unexpected budget friendly turn. I was whining about my findings on the motorgeek forums, talking about how difficult and expensive it would be fo get a set of oversize 2.1 pistons when someone (AJ i think) chimed in with "why don't you just bore that thing +.060 and put MC (2.2) pistons in it?" then another guy chimed in "I have a few good ones you can have for the cost of shipping" Now the budget friendly bells were ringing in my head. The thought had crossed my mind when I noticed the small difference in piston diameters while reading the bentely manual, measuring bores. . . but had it ever been done before?? afterall, the maximum overbore listed on the 2.1 was just shy of the 81mm MC jugs so I loaded up the block and took it down to the machine shop for a second opinion. Once the guy doing the boring approved I didn't see any reason not to try.

So thats the current state of affairs. 2.1 turned 2.2 by way of free pistons. Other plans include minor port matching done by me, A cam that I will source from an MC2 engine and MSnS management along with a stiff wastegate spring, then just add more boost!!!

Great thread. There is something interesting about 80's Audi(s). I see them around and always wonder if they're worth a damn.

2K4Kcsq wrote: Agreed. seems like the plastic parts (as with most german cars of any era) are the weakest which in turn makes them harder to find and more expensive. But the drivetrain can soak up plenty of power in mostly stock trim. . . seems like a good recipie for a challenge build. As for the exhaust, we are deffinetly on the same page. I'm planning on bending my own 2.5 inch by way of a harbor freight bender and alot of sand packing. I can't imagine buying a mandrel bent setup from a company like 2bennet for a whopping $1495. . . . . thats insane considering what I paid for the entire car with it's stack of parts. It is awesome that companys like 2b are making parts for this oddball but I can't imagine they sell very much of it at those prices.

Id have to strongly dissagree with you on the "plastic bits". The early b2 models suffered from horrible plastics and dashboard, but the late model b2's (85-87) are incredibly modern material with fantastic materials. My 84 4ksq with an interior from a very well conditioned 85 4ksq looks very very very good and feels even better. I would without a doubt say that the interior is on par with most cars 10 years newer. In fact I would say VW didnt pass the late b2's until the mk4 models came out.

Power and drivetrain are tanks. Literally. Not the fastest, but damned if you can break one. Making a small toolbox for the trunk, full of various little bits and pieces will prevent you from breaking down. The only real thing that would require a tow would be the damn bushings for the clutch linkage.. But if you have gone over the car and done so every few months, I suspect you wouldnt have one fail on you cause you would spot it ahead of time.

Anyways, look forward to more of the car! Im curiouis about the 2.2.. I have a blau 272 cam that I am going to be removing out of my car and putting back in the stock as right now im more concerned with fuel economy than performance. If you are after a cam Id be willing to sell that.

And ANY VW 1.8 4cylinder adjustable cam gear will work on our cars.

Driggs wrote:

2K4Kcsq wrote: Agreed. seems like the plastic parts (as with most german cars of any era) are the weakest which in turn makes them harder to find and more expensive. But the drivetrain can soak up plenty of power in mostly stock trim. . . seems like a good recipie for a challenge build. As for the exhaust, we are deffinetly on the same page. I'm planning on bending my own 2.5 inch by way of a harbor freight bender and alot of sand packing. I can't imagine buying a mandrel bent setup from a company like 2bennet for a whopping $1495. . . . . thats insane considering what I paid for the entire car with it's stack of parts. It is awesome that companys like 2b are making parts for this oddball but I can't imagine they sell very much of it at those prices.

Id have to strongly dissagree with you on the "plastic bits". The early b2 models suffered from horrible plastics and dashboard, but the late model b2's (85-87) are incredibly modern material with fantastic materials. My 84 4ksq with an interior from a very well conditioned 85 4ksq looks very very very good and feels even better. I would without a doubt say that the interior is on par with most cars 10 years newer. In fact I would say VW didnt pass the late b2's until the mk4 models came out. Power and drivetrain are tanks. Literally. Not the fastest, but damned if you can break one. Making a small toolbox for the trunk, full of various little bits and pieces will prevent you from breaking down. The only real thing that would require a tow would be the damn bushings for the clutch linkage.. But if you have gone over the car and done so every few months, I suspect you wouldnt have one fail on you cause you would spot it ahead of time. Anyways, look forward to more of the car! Im curiouis about the 2.2.. I have a blau 272 cam that I am going to be removing out of my car and putting back in the stock as right now im more concerned with fuel economy than performance. If you are after a cam Id be willing to sell that. And ANY VW 1.8 4cylinder adjustable cam gear will work on our cars.

Thats interesting, I have heard the mk4 plastic is the worst out of all vw interiors. lol I guess all I was saying with that post was if you had to pic a weak point in the B2 thats about as weak as it gets. small potatos really. I have never owned a pre '85 but my '87 has its share of broken bits, all plastic and mostly dashboard related. all easily fixable if you can find a decent stock at a junkyard. . . here is my colorado honey hole

Thanks for all the engine info btw. I am in the market for a cam but aren't the 272 cams more of a hopped up NA grind? I have read they have a little too much overlap for a turbo setup which is why i'm on the hunt for an MC2.

I spent the last 2 days re-thinking my poor mans front lip. . . . I was never happy with the hardware store weather stripping I had on there so i set out to do something about it. First was to mock up a length of old junk conveyer belting I had lying around (used to be part of a snow cat track) then level it in the bumper and cut the profile using the bumper as a guide comparison Once i had the profile cut, the hardest step i would say, I made 8 simple 90 degree brackets out of some aluminium drop I had. Then eyeballed the rivit locations off of the lower grill uprights, drilled the bumper and matched each bracket for a nice tight squeeze backside I'm pretty happy with how it turned out considering its only a first draft, I like it alot more than the old one and it cost me nothing. . i guess I could put the rivits on the tally.

In reply to 2K4Kcsq:

You'd be better off putting a tray going under the bumper to the tranny. And some diffusers on it ;)

If you need ANY interior parts let me know . Or go on he Quattroworld forum and ask any of us. I have tons of spare bits :)

And garza is the cam man. He has a spreadsheet somewhere. I'll find it tonight and post a link

Driggs wrote: In reply to 2K4Kcsq: You'd be better off putting a tray going under the bumper to the tranny. And some diffusers on it ;)

this is one of those form>function pieces. . . I'm bieng literal when I say I plan on sweeping the concourse floor

I love this thread and this car. keep up the good work!

In reply to 2K4Kcsq:

haha.. Im still new to this forum so I wasnt sure if you were planning on autocrossing/racing the car or not.

If you need help or advice on the car, visit us over on quattroworld 4k/cgt forums. Loads of help and knowledgeable folks on there!

In reply to fidelity101:

thanks man, i'm just glad to get a little interaction on this project. . . helps keep me motivated that much more

In reply to Driggs:

I do plan on autocrossing the car... it is a challenge build afterall. and it has already seen some track time noted in previous posts, all I meant was the front lip is more about aesthetics than performance. Most of the time I am less concerned with looks but there are a few styling bits that I feel are important in the overall coolness of this project and the front lip is a biggie. one advantage to the heavy duty rubber I used, I could attach a splitter or a tray like your describing fairly easy if i ever felt it was needed

Great work on the 4K. I love the grassroots solutions and road stories. I was out beating on my 200 field car today in the snow and having a blast. If you need any parts it's not long for the world.

An exhaust will certainly make you happy and I am interested to see how the home bent system goes together.

looking great. The 4000CS is still one of the best-looking cars Audi ever made, in my opinion!

I need to stop reading this thread. It makes me want another 4kq (I've had an '86 and an '84). Must...resist...craigslist...

but they are sooo cheap right now! lol

thanks alot guys, I sure am having a blast on this project. and I couldnt agree more on the best looking audi comment . . .They clean up quite well with a little love in the right places. here's a trivia question for you guys as I have recieved many different answers, what exactly differentiates the CS from the S?? I have looked up my options on the registry, (loaded!) asked many people (different answer each time) and i still see some S models seemingly identical to my CS. I'd also like to know why all the tornado red cars seem to have a different shade on the passenger rear door

Anyway, should be working on the distributor mod and maybe the intake manifold today, updates and pics to follow.

The KH came with a locked distributor from the factory wich works out well for my megasquirt plans, only real problem is it's a one window and I need 5 for spark control. . . a little research and help from the motorgeek forum pointed me in the right direction for a suitable kit Mine sat partially exposed to the elements with a broken cap for years so it only made sense to replace the hall sensor along with the window cup. The only real difference between this and a vac/mechanical advance unit are these two pins with bushings that lock the upper shaft to the main shaft. . . i found it funny that mine still had one of the mechanical advance springs in place for no reason whatsoever The only other difference and issue that needs dealt with is locking down the new hall sensor as its designed to work on a vac advance 5 window version of the same basic thing. as you can see here the old one is locked with a pin on the lower left while the new one comes pre drilled ready for a screw job Thats about when my OCD kicked in and I decided to clean up the 007 body to near street pro billit status. first step was to hand file the ugly casting burs Then I put it in my dads wood lathe and gave it a decent brushed look. Not much else to speak of. . . just dont forget (like I almost did) that little tiny key that locks the window cap to the shaft

Here you have it, one bosch pro billit dizzy dont let the cap fool you, that was just for the photo. this thing it ready to control 5 cylinders of fire

In reply to 2K4Kcsq:

my 84 is an s.. generally it seems that from 85+ the quattros were cs and the fwd stayed s.. dont know if ive ever seen a 85+ quattro with just an s..

however you should have a build sticker in your trunk? that tell you your true options.. the cs and s really are garbage and dont let on to much.

as the different shades? welcome to tornado pink, or in my case, its all not quite faded yet, and I call it hurricane red.

Audi did NOT use a clearcoat on your car. so be careful if its in good shape. they generally faded because there wasnt a clearcoat and harsh detergents will quickly thin out your paint job.

I imagine your passenger rear door was subject to a lot of sun. probably from where it was parked for a long time.

2K4Kcsq wrote: but they are sooo cheap right now! lol

yes, but where to find them? In unusual fashion, the Atlanta supply seems to have dried up...

In reply to Driggs:

I know of 2 85 S quattros that are almost identical to mine minus the q-script interior and paint matched mirrors (which was a rocky mountain package according to the registry). . . thats part of my curiosity. I read somewhere that the C was commemorative of some of the earliest audis to recieve the 5cyl but who knows. . . it is the internet Hurricane red. . . hahahaha love it! I have done the whole options look up already which revealed even more strikingly similar S models. . . agan, part of my curiosity i suppose.

as far as finding one... I imagine the east coast is a little dry, but its hard to do a colorado CL search without finding atleast 2 hovering around a grand. . . must have been something to that quattro in these rocky mountain winters eh?? lol. also, if your dying to find one there has been a beautiful oceanic blue one for sale on motorgeek for a few years now. . . cheaper and nicer than mine. . . poor car needs a good home.

puttin in work on the intake Virgin KH manifold. . . can't be too many of these left

unused cold start valve casting block removal minor porting

I took the sofadog.net approach to the inside of my manifold but I hear those GRM judges can be quite meticulous so I'm stepping it up a notch and making the outside a beautifull show piece aswell. . . it's basicly the centerpiece of the 10vt even if it is slanty left

I cant finish the porting without a harbor freight trip and I can't do that without a paycheck so. . . . me bieng me I couldnt stare at those ugly casting lines any longer. . . or the casting batch numbers for that matter I managed to get a decent looking cast finish with the die grinder. . . after years behind the trigger i'm finally learning how to make that tool do what I want 99% of the time. . . it's a gracefull artform mixed with a little swearing. . . DO WHAT I SAY CUZ I SAID IT!!!

Still have a little bit of work to do near the throttle body, Then i'll give it a high heat wrinkle finish to hide the rest of the imperfections.