Despec'd Miata

Long story short, I have a Miata. Yeah another __________ Miata thread. 

Today as I struggled to replace the water pump to quiet the howling I hear I decided that one of two things is true

1) Some engineers giggle every time they see a Miata.

2) Some engineers did crack.

I mean really, when you take the recycling in you really get an idea of the cargo capacity:

OK, so its hiding my tool box under there, but I still don't have a spare.

Then you change the water pump -- why should I have to time an engine to do the water pump? 

The air box is just sitting there, I had to unbolt it to unbolt...and on and on (the white thing on top is mosquito repellant)

AND I still have one bolt to go at this point! I am leaning toward number 2 being the answer, crack, lots of crack..

 But they are glorious machines when you're tooling down the road, a twisty road, a hilly twisty road....

So far the Despec'd Miata has had the cage cut out and most an interior put in. I found some pristine black carpet at pick-n-pull

and now I need a drivers side door panel. I power washed the seats at the carwash and they are pretty good now. Out side its pretty good

although it has lots of little dings and few scraps. The wheels were brown, a scrubbie and soap got them looking good. 

On the plus side Accordianfolder did the timing belt, I thought he said so and when I took it down its good.

Most of the accessories (alt / ac / ps) spin free and no grinding so the water pump should fix the howl.

In reply to pheo :

Nice! What year is it?

Doing the timing belt and or a water pump is not terrible on these compared to many. 

Amen. Miata timing belt was far simpler than my dohc neon acr.

Yeah I know its not as bad as some, it just seems a little contorted.

Its a 92 with the 1.6  5 speed. Its reliable, it got me from California to Missouri, but soon its going to be my back up for driving 160 miles a day for work. 

This morning as I continue with the repair, I find this surprise in my water pump kit:

A round gasket for a square hole? It covers the narrowest areas, but it is what was included. EDIT -- It seems to match the other part pretty good, I'll just go with it.

I am going to stop at the store and see if I can get a square gasket. I have it all ready to go when I get that and the valve cover gasket. But I am thinking about cleaning and painting the valve cover also:

It needs at least a good cleaning. I am also replacing the upper and lower hoses, and all the temp sensors. I may get the heater hoses while I am at it so everything is good. It only has 102,000 but it is 26 years old. EDIT -- Double checked the heater hoses, still pretty good, and easy to change, I will skip them but get the sensors one of which is bad.

Dusterbd13 said:

Amen. Miata timing belt was far simpler than my dohc neon acr.

A guy on Faceplace sells cam locking tools that makes that job way easier. 

Professor_Brap said:

Dusterbd13 said:

Amen. Miata timing belt was far simpler than my dohc neon acr.

A guy on Faceplace sells cam locking tools that makes that job way easier. 

I just put a pair of crescent wrenches on the cam flats, then clamp them together with vice grips. 

Neither of those things helps a guy with big arms and hands

Dusterbd13 said:

Neither of those things helps a guy with big arms and hands

Im a large man, trick is to get the ol girl tiled .

Is there some combination of diet coke and fabric softener that gets you high that I don't know about? There has to be more to this story in regards to that trunk...

The good part of the high is your really caffeinated and have soft skin, the bad is that softener taste is impossible to forget.

Truthfully,  there were bags in the passenger seat and I had to take the last one and dump it in the trunk. We live in the country and my CR-V was down, obviously a Miata doesn't have the same cargo capacity.

I decided to get a OEM thermostat at Mazda and they had to order it. So I cant post the finish of this fix til the weekend.

When I picked up the gaskets I needed I got offered a job in the auto parts store, but I'm afraid I'd be more broke than I am now....

Rain, house a/c and a regional war with some ground hogs burrowing under my shop delayed things, but...

I got it back together last night. Double, triple, quadruple checked the timing, spun the engine, no resistance.

Torqued, and replaced several missing bolts, more bolts went in than came out on this project. 

** I stored the bolts in plastic bags, except ONE. Yeah, here we go....

So I am guessing, but here is what I think:

1) I sat the  aluminum Yonaka drain bolt on the solid concrete block supporting the car.

2) Its shiny, slightly sweet from antifreeze.

3) We have little masked bandits out here in the country.

4) That  a little masked bandit decided it was going to be his treasure.

I need to fire up the lathe for another part anyway, so I guess I will be making this before

the Despec'd is back on the road again. 

NOTE -- I would order one from Yonaka, but looking at their site I found this and now I am blind:

5 minutes. I leave the office for 5 minutes and this happens.

Please make this the most liked Instagram photo in our company history.

#yonaka #yonakamotorsports #womenscami #bigmanlittleshirt #honda #civic #itouchmyself #myeyesareburning #pleaseneveragain

389 likes  48 comments

Cooling question on a Miata.

Cooling system currently:

1. Yonaka radiator, fairly new and clean, new antifreeze good ratio.
2. New hoses, ports clean on thermostat housing 90 degree tube
3. New water pump, belts and genuine Mazda 2 valve thermostat 
4. Air is out of system

My next 2 steps

1. I still have to get the thermostat housing switch which I confirmed is bad this morning.
2. Clean the a/c condenser to see if that helps any.

Went for test drive

1. It was running good so I tried to over heat it. 
2. Uphill, 1st to 4th full throttle pull to 6100 rpm in each gear.  A/C on.

Temp was steady as a rock, 11 o'clock on temp gauge. Engine had warmed up better and faster than before.

3 miles later I'm cruising back road to house,

1. A/C on running in 2nd and 3rd gear
2. The revs were between 1500-2500 rpm, maybe 3k
3. The temp climbs to 12 o'clock.
4. I was moving between 20 and 30 mph I guess, just an easy drive through a neighborhood 

Question, shouldn't 20 to 30 mph be enough airflow without the engine fan working?

1. The a/c fan was on.
2. There is nothing in the oil to indicate a failure of the head gasket 
3. I haven't seen any leaks or loss of coolant

Is there something I have overlooked?

In reply to pheo :

Is the undertray installed?

Are you sure you got all of the air out of it?

Pete - Is the undertray installed?

No, not for the test , I wanted to see if there were any leaks, I guess it makes a difference too. I am going to put it on tonight and see what happens.

Cordus - Are you sure you got all of the air out of it?

The front end was jacked up 2 feet while I was filling / starting / burping, I let it cool completely after the run with a full overflow tank to draw from. Opened the radiator cap this morning and there is coolant right there. I hope I got it all out.

On a positive note, it doesn't roar anymore, so the water pump was not far from quitting. The shaft was not tight, but it wasn't loose either.

20 mile run and not over heating, until I came up that same stretch of road.

Maybe I just shouldn't come home that way....

I let it get as far as I was (un)comfortable with

Both fans are running, the underpan is on, maybe air flow

Everything is stock and there is not much room for airflow. Its also 90 here.

Still nothing on the dipstick but oil.

Overheating update -- It will overheat or try to at low speed, it heated up yesterday in 92 degree heat when I used the a/c. I got it cooled back down and went home.

Some of the things I did or I am going to do

1. I am going to move the license plate, it is blocking some air flow, I just hate to drill into the plastic.
2. I did a compression test, pretty good.
3. Watched for bubbles in the coolant, nothing, so I am calling the head gasket good for now.
4. I am going to seal the radiators edge, there is no foam seal around it.
5. I am thinking seriously about the coolant reroute.
6. I may do the hood vent thing I saw when I was researching overheating Miatas

Now on to tonights work, note this, there is the right way and then there is the way I do it

I took the door apart, since I can't use a/c without overheating the motor I wanted my power windows

to work. I got to this point with everything taken apart when I realized I had not really looked at how it was put together.

I took the motor apart and cleaned and lubed everything in it, and tried to remember how the cable came off.

I was horrified by the grease in the rail (see below) and trying to disassemble the window without breaking it

and I forgot to take a picture or memorize which cable went where.

And yes that is dried as hard as it looks. It actually crumbled into bits when I scraped it!

I got the rails and cables clean like this, then lubed them with grease. It does move better but

it is still a little stiff. But without a/c I need to have the windows working. So after getting

the windows to work better and being a beautiful, cool evening Pyro and I popped the top took

a drive and had Sundaes at Sonic. It was a good day.

Post Script:

Unfortunately, I don't have a friend where I can leave it at their house, its not their project

and it magically gets cleaned and repaired.

I have to have a front plate mounted. Pyro works for one of the local po-po's and so by extension I must be legal....

So best case for for airflow is this: (excuse the bugs, late night testing)

But I had put the license plate where it had been, and the Despec'd Miata's old home was cooler than here.

It does stick out and not seal off the opening, but it impedes enough air to cause the problems I have been having. I remounted it by bending the bracket.

I mounted it without drilling any new holes and used a jam nut and fender washers to make sure it stayed.

I do think it looks a little goofy, but it doesn't impede airflow now.

I then tested it by running low speed roads with the a/c on after getting the engine heat soaked, its 90 out. This replicates the conditions that caused it to start to heat up before. I also set the timing down to 10 degrees BTC from 14. The idle was turned up a bit so I dropped it to 850.

While I was testing it I got the stuff to clean the air flap and idle passages to help smooth out the idle. With the a/c on it does surge a bit and struggles when it drops to idle at stop lights. I may also have to raise the idle speed a bit.

Once I stood up I looked at it and its not completely goofy, I guess. Oh well, I have a/c now!

I rummaged around and found a block of mystery aluminum to start my crazy plan. I really wanted some 6160 hardness T6 aluminum to make this with, but this will work, I guess.

I also ordered a Kia water neck, which sort of gives away what I am up to.

So I just kind of eyeballed it and started cutting....

And I got pretty far into machining before the softness of the aluminum and the bad tolerances really got to me....

I don't have a picture but I bored the center out and fitted a thermostat, that is when I really got dissatisfied with the progress.

So I pulled out the measuring tools and CAD, designed it properly and ordered some 6160 T6 aluminum to make the spacer plate.

So now I am waiting for my shipment of aluminum and the time to cut it properly. And then I will do a reroute on the Despec'd Miata. It doesn't heat up like it did, but it seems to be marginal. Slow speeds, high outside temps and running the a/c will start the temp climbing after a while. So I researched the heck out rerouting and decided to do a reroute. I am going to make the spacer but I have everything else, big hose, Kia waterneck, clamps etc.

Of course the crazy neighbors invited us out last night to watch fireworks, it was fun. I think I had more fun trying to photograph them.

I hope everybody has a safe and fun 4th of July.

I went to Pick N Pull at Truman rd today. I went to get sensors for Gerti and a spare for the Despec'd Miata. I got both and a unique picture:

I am pretty sure they meant pull the parts from cars INSIDE the yard, and hoped my CR-V wouldn't look like that car when I came out.

I made it home and I didn't have parts missing so I guess it was successful trip.

Are you planning on running forced induction or anything? If not, you really shouldn't need a coolant re-route on a stock car. Methinks something else is happening with your cooling system that needs to be solved first. As far as I understand, the re-route is mostly intended to keep cylinder 4 properly cooled. 

In reply to thatsnowinnebago :

I was wondering the same thing. When I autoxed mine a couple weeks ago, during a heat warning(heat index over 100), I never had any problems even after 4-runs per heat. The temp gauge stayed at the normal slightly-below-half mark, and I didn’t need to let it cool down after runs, there was only about 5-minutes between runs too. 

I'm stumped to be honest.

I know Mazda would not have a car off the showroom floor that would heat up like this.

It has a new radiator, hoses, thermostat, waterpump, fans kicks on a/c fan runs, no funny looking oil, I have set the timing back to 10 degrees, I did a compression test and it seem to be pretty good, I moved the license plate so the air flow is unrestricted. The under pan is on. I don't have the weather stripping around the fan shroud, but then it didn't come with any, the gap is pretty small.

Its a Yonaka radiator. Accordianfolder got it as a kit and we put in just before I  drove cross country in August. I didn't run the a/c for other reasons coming across. He got the kit because he had noticed it starting to warm up in traffic and didn't want me stranded 400 miles from nowhere, which I appreciate. *Note he was supposed to get this car in the end of this mess but bought Stinky and I bought the Miata with the understanding the low price meant he gets first crack when I sell it. Second note I was on CL recently and if you want it back....

I haven't hooked a computer to it and looked at the fuel map, the plugs looked good when I did the timing belt, nothing burnt or weird.

I wasn't planning to run any forced induction. Well not yet I guess. Right now I could run this in the $2018 challenge I would have (almost) room in the budget for some sort of boost.

Also were you autoxing with the a/c running, that seems to be the trigger for the overheating. I did wonder if a bad pump could cause enough load to overheat the engine over time. It puts out cool air and it is the original with R-12, and it starts to heat up at low speed (15-25 mph) and rpm (1500-2000) with the a/c on. Off it doesn't do it.

What have I missed?  I am open to ideas.

In reply to Bent-Valve :

Seems like either the water pump isn’t turning/pumping, there’s a blockage preventing full flow, there’s air trapped in the system, or combustion temps are higher than normal. 

Have you checked for any crud between the radiator & condenser? Did you bleed it with the heater set on full-hot?

Far-out guess: could the aftermarket radiator be flowing too well preventing the coolant from transferring enough heat?