FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

solfly said:

pretty colors

LOL

They let you set the color of literally everything you see on the screen and lets you have up to I think 30 themes and each item on the screen can can be set  to a theme individually with change points set and you can have as many screens with as many items on them you please so setting up screens I liked took forever.  "When the gods wish to punish us they grant our wishes" like wishing for an ECU that let me change literally ANY on the screen or in the programing by just clicking....how can you not click on stuff and mess with it when its so easy?  How?  

Then they don't let you NAME the gradients??? F'n software engineers, man.

Did some very important work on the block tonight.  Last time I did a really poor job cleaning up the cast surface on the side of the block so I spent a few hours making it a bit nicer, not perfect but acceptable.  

I also need to clean up where the liners sit and get the new liners finished and in the block along with the main bearings so its ready to go the shop.

Wade finished the valves and they are on their way back.  He noticed they were way more worn that the hours suggested they should be and not all worn even.  That has got to be from me lapping them...remember back I made a plate to seal the chambers so I could leak test all the valves then I lapped until there was were no leaks.  A quick hit with lapping compound to see they are touching and knock off any tool marks that might leak I guess is just fine, actually grinding the seats true with lapping compound is maybe not ideal.  

I just replaced a few guides that were not straight and no doubt causing the valve to sit angled on the seat so hopefully everything will be right this time. He suggested touching the seats with a stone just to be sure which isn't a bad idea...if any are still off that will fix them but also change the width of the seat....but maybe cross that bridge when/if I get to it.  Not sure.... my focus will be getting the block out to the shop then I'll have a few weeks to sort the heads.

Today however I'll be planting 14 boxwoods and moving a couple yards of good dirt I ordered from the driveway to make a planting bed behind the boxwoods and in front of the wall next to the new patio space that I just restuccoed  last weekend and dug out a couple yards of fill/gravel over the past few days as it requires a pick to dig through ....it will be so pretty once the plants are in...yes Dear, then I'm done and onto the car right? 

I'm sure you're all getting tired of engine part pics

so here's what I believe is the end to yard work for the year and my pass to the shop....just over 10 solid hours today to be sure it got done TODAY.  All new stucco last weekend and now the dirt is done and hedge planted.  I filled the raise patio with ground concrete which is 1/2 the price of 2a modified and the extra (it took 240 tons) I used as back fill on the outside of the wall.....who knew that E36 M3 could reharden?  I had to beat it with the pick with everything I had.  anyway, once the shrubs are established the I'll get them trimmed and they should fill in nice in the next couple years.  Up top ...probably ground cover...thinking about a strawberry garden.  But I'm off to the shop!

With the yard its finally time to OPEN the bow of sleeves from Darton and see if I can get them in the block.  Right now they should look like this

And I need them to look like this...the standard tools they use couldn't make the little undercut on the top flange.  They would have needed it to be a .125" wide undercut which probably would have been ok but that is literally 1/2 the contact width gone so I decided to have them leave metal and cut that myself along with a similar issue at the o-ring seat....today we find out if that was a wise choice.

They look nice out of the box

The plan was 5 from both sides of the top flange to be certain they are parallel.  It worked out to about 3 off the top and 6 off the bottom on most.

So plug in the bottom so I can chuck it tight without damage
true it at the chuck then tap the outer dia in, repeat until nothing changes end to end
cut the top face
Cut a little relief groove so there is no radius on the back then set the flange thickness
Add a little chamfer I forgot on the drawing

The flanges all came out within .0003" and are ready to install.

I need a lathe

Norma66-Brent said:

I need a lathe

they can be quite useful.

This is starting to look like it could be an engine again someday.

Liners are in the block. Main bearings are in and torqued for measuring. Rod bearing are in and torqued for measuring.  Crank is clean.  I think I'm ready for a trip to the machine shop.

I just need to decide what to tell them for rod and main clearance so they know what size to finish the crank...I'll think about that in the morning when I'm less tired I guess.  Should be ready to pick up early next month.....could be driving by Christmas if I don't find any other major issues.

mke said:

 

I just need to decide what to tell them for rod and main clearance so they know what size to finish the crank...I'll think about that in the morning when I'm less tired I guess. 

Good that I waited until morning because I'm more than confused at the moment.  Looking at the 400, 308 and QV manuals the nominal main clearance is .0018 and nominal rod is .00266.....those numbers SEEM backwards.  The 328 section is asking for tighter on the mains..  the bearing people say 3/4-1 per inch is typical making those numbers exactly backwards.  

Those are the nominal numbers the range is
Rod .00181-.00350
Main .00114-.00252

There is overlap and I could just use the normal numbers which would put the rods right at the bottom of the factory spec....and my rods are 360 so not sure what the factory spec is for them, I found a 355 manual but it doesn't specifically give a clearance spec that I can find....the numbers on the journal, rod, bearing are all very close to 308 ...rod bore is exact, bearing a touch thinner, crank a touch larger so it adds to about the same numbers.  Mains are the tighter 328 spec of .00126

I'm ASSUMING they have found the block is rigid so mains can be run tight but rods flex and need the clearance....not sure.  Its raining today...I'll good to the shop tomorrow.

In reply to mke :

Aluminum block expansion opens the mains a lot more with operating temp than the steel rods, so I would go with the small # on the mains. Rod # does seem big though, so go small there too.

We used to machine and assemble our blocks with a water heater circulating water in it.

You had to warm up the motors with a block heater before they would turn!!!!

This was done so the motors would last, as the clearances opened up so much when hot they would expire.

My buddy started a business around this https://www.hotheadheater.com

These were aluminum block 2.3L Ford motors making ~2hp per Cu Inch @ 9000+ rpm

so even when things seem done on this....they aren't.  The center 5 head studs on each side are original in their original location,  the rest are relocated custom studs.  the TR heads are not quite as tall as 400 heads so I knew the original studs were on the long side.....and it turned out a couple not quite ok.

So as long as it was still on the bench might as well have at it.....

back to heads...started cutting the exhaust seat IDs

Do the acorn nuts have any mechanical benefits in a head stud application vs just going with a normal open nut?

Syscrush said:

Do the acorn nuts have any mechanical benefits in a head stud application vs just going with a normal open nut?

They protect the part of the stud that would normally be exposed beyond the nut from corrosion and damage but in this application they mostly contribute to the visual beauty that's typical of a Ferrari engine.

Block and crank at the shop.

I told them:
clearance rods and mains .0021 
Pistons .003

3-4 weeks.

On the head nuts....a few of them were open on the last assembly (at like $10 each used) ...which is why I cut the studs this time around 

finished up boring the seat IDs.....quite a lot of valve seat ended up on the floor so I must have done it right  

I'll start actually cutting seats tomorrow.

Do you think this will all be worth it in the end? The cost, effort and down time vs a more conventional swap/build? I know that's not a very grassroots/car guy question but wondering your take?

Cut the exhaust seats tonight and they at least look good....as in like useable head again  

Tomorrow I'll do a quick lap and see if they all clean like the first test one did.

solfly said:

Do you think this will all be worth it in the end? The cost, effort and down time vs a more conventional swap/build? I know that's not a very grassroots/car guy question but wondering your take?

BLASPHEMY!!!!  Burn the WITCH!!!!  

Good question.  Today I would say no as nothing about this has gone to plan.  It was already 600sih hp, and in hind sight refreshing the V8, cams, port work and a larger blower (or a switch to big turbos) would have been cheeper and much faster.  But I suspect if you ask again in a few week when its (hopefully) driving I'll answer differently. 

There was a feel to the way the car drove or maybe more felt stock that was lost with the blower engines and the point of all this was to try to get the magic back.  I know that's not a racer or engineer thing to say but it really changed with the blower(s).  The added acceleration was wonderful....that last engine the tire would just start spinning in 1st gear when the boost gauge hit about 10 psi no matter how gently you approached 10psi.....best acceleration was starting in 2nd gear.  Roll along and 2000 rpm, push the throttle nd it would just kind of shake and GO like a big block corvette.....which is very much not like a Ferrari that explodes with a smoothness that is hard to describe. And the sound....the blower was louder than the loud exhaust, almost turbine like. 

This engine will if nothing else sound like a Ferrari but I suspect it will also feel like a Ferrari.  I intentionally biased the power to the higher rpm to get the low end torque down....to encourage  rpm.  The last blower engine liked to be driven around town at 1500-3000.....this engine should run there but shouldn't be all that happy and I changed the gearing to try to force more rpm as more torque is now needed with 1st gar nearly where 2nd was.  Also the switch to 12 from 8 will make 2000 feel the way 3000 used too....same power pulse feel and sound.

So ask again once its driving, I really hope to be able to say "YES!! it was worth it!"......but until it runs, not so much worth it.

solfly is definitely a witch

In reply to mke :

Excellent response to Solfly's question. I'd kinda been wondering myself.

Soul =    " There was a feel to the way the car drove or maybe more felt stock that was lost with the blower engines and the point of all this was to try to get the magic back. "