This may be a little ridiculous - a $2018 challenge oddessey

Supposed to be everything but the accessories and flywheel 

Dusterbd13 said:

Supposed to be everything but the accessories and flywheel 

Wow. If that's true I need to take a new look at those motors.

Wxdude10 said:

Dusterbd,

Earlier you mentioned larger heads to lower compression.  The iron heads on the rwd 2.8/3.1/3.4's would drop the compression, but they suck for flow.  The LX9 3500 (bored out LA1) heads are supposed to be the best heads available before they redesigned the block for the LZ4 3500/LZ9 3900 engines.  The LX9 heads will fit on the LA1.  Flex Fuel versions were only on the newer 3500/3900 engines.  LA1 specs were 170-185 HP, 200-210 lb-ft.  LX9 was 196-201 HP, 213-221 lb-ft.

Watch out with your T-5 bell housing and the starter location.  The 3400's (all FWD 60* V6s) have the starter on the other side of the engine from the RWD block.  I think there is a S-10 bell housing that has pockets for both the fwd and rwd starter locations.  This might have been from the second gen S-10's that had the 2.2l in them.  Engine mount bosses are laid out for transverse mounting. 

You can always build a hybrid, 3.4 rwd block with 3400 crank/rods/pistons/heads/intake.  Gets you the rwd mounts/starter stuff, but you get the better flow/power of the 3400.  Search thirdgen.org.  Several people have worked on using the FWD v6's in rwd f-bodies.

One last thing.  You can rotate the FWD upper intake around 180* so it points forward.  No need to run it into the firewall.  It all matches up.

You can only turn the manifold around if you change teh front accessories.  Otherwise, the intake has a severe interference with the water pump.

The 3800 V6 T5 has the starter pocket in the correct place for the 3400.

Matthew Kennedy said:

sleepyhead said:

mazdeuce - Seth said:

Right, but you can reach the limits of the engine with nitrous and fuel on the strip. At least once.

All you're trying to do is make tires go fast. I suspect you'll see more AX gains with a NA motor and testing than all of the time and $$ of a turbo and less testing. Make sure you build in the room for a turbo, but I'd estimate it at something like priority #4. Getting the car properly tuned to AX on the tires you have should be #1. Then all of the mess that goes with nitrous and the car surviving drag launches is #2 and #3 (and  you need drag tires, we know that) and finally, adding more power for the AX.

along these lines... keep in mind that a 100hp corolla with no suspension was ~5sec off ftd?  And ftd was set with an open diff (if I heard that correctly on the livestream)?  so 1800# / 100hp = 18#/hp... vs. 2200# / 250hp = 9#/hp... might be enough for the AX course?

Yep, open diff on the Insight.  Subaru front LSDs for the 5MT are expeeeenssive.  1900lb / 230hp = 8.25 lb/hp.

The limit in the autox for the car was probably the diff.  It was doing lots of corner-exit one-tire-fires.

does anyone recall a trap speed for this car's 13.8sec pass?

Ok, we're definitely probably going boosted at the minimum. 

I want to do this rightish.

Which means that i need to find a generally correctly sized turbo for cheap, intercooler, charge pipes, build some exhaust plumbig, and.....

I guess im asking y'al to learn me. What am i looking for, and why?

Again, 2500lbs, 3.90-4.30 gears, mildly ported 3400 la1 and world class t5 in an nb miata. Power goal of 300 at the wheels.  Very minimal boost lag for autocross purposes. 

After some Google searches, it seems that the answer is:

T04e turbo is commonly used 

Biggest interooler you can fit

2.5 charge pipes are standard 

Buya wastegate that flows enough and put it before the maf

30lb injectors are plenty 

In reply to Mr. Lee :

That Contraption is now Mine, And just read this thread, Now I know why Michael wanted my Exhaust if i was using a North star but I can't Get Donnie (FailBird)  to Respond to My E-mails, so it's kind of up in the air right now for an engine swap. BUT for someone  else, SVRex Has a Fiero with a Supercharged 3800 for a Grand that Is a Complete car Needing a Clutch.

At the very least, id love good pictures of the exhaust on the fiero.  I finally found the thread, but due to the photobucket apocalypse theres no pictures  left.

Andy Neuman would have them, OR  He put them on gafiero.org several months ago, let me have dinner and a shower and I will get the Post Current Because it's Fixin to be.

Cool. Looking forward to seeing the update!

OK  I brought the post up it's on gafiero.org  (georgia fiero) go to Message Board- General Fiero Discussion

Man o man. 

I will need to come down there and really study this thing when it gets to Georgia.  Theres some very strange E36 M3 going on in that engine bay, and i cant tell if its genius or madness from the pictures.  I really want to lay some hands on it.....

Prayers and Laying of Hands will be accepted. 

I have no idea what intake that is.  Maybe an older 3.1 intake?

Exhaust looks like aftermarket foero or fwd exhaust.  I don't think it would work rwd....

 The Intake is to be determined after it gets here, the headers look to be for the fiero but need to ask Club Members if that's right. there are some made for Fiero's but the info I have seen was on Pennocks Fiero Forum.

remember this is a 3.4 camaro engine with Buick heads

Looking at the pictures some more, im almost certain that is a sheetmetal intake. Almost has to be, judging by the shape and flanges that are visible in the pictures. 

Dad was here tonight.  Hes excited to get started on this project.  We should be picking up the engines from pat first weekend in December.  Assuming the weather holds.

I have a feeling that this is going to be the build thread....

Dusterbd13 said:

I have a feeling that this is going to be the build thread....

seems in-line with your previous challenge build thread title

In reply to sleepyhead :

Its also started about the same. Asking questions that snowballed before actual content. 

If you are going to Pat's you may as well bring Back that Fiero In Springdale Ohio, near Cincinatti it has a 3.4 in it and Matt only wanted 100.00 bucks for it. I E-Mailed him last night to check, Hint Hint.

Probably won't happen. We're actually fixing to sell her car trailer that we used for the challenge this year. And what we're driving up North gets bad enough gas mileage already

Hey moderators!

Can i get this moved to the build threads and the title added to? 

A $2018 challenge oddesy added at the end of the thread title? 

Too much good stuff here to just abandon 

Challenge budget so far:

purchased 1999 Miata from John for 800

sold engine, sensors, and top to yupididit for 660

sold/traded torsen rear to self for noisy open rear and 200 recoup

bought 04 3400 from Buick rondevous from Patrick for 75 (going to pick up next weekend)

bought 98 camaro 3800 T5 and bellhousing/shifter/hydraulic throwout bearing from adams auto parts: 132.50

bought 3500 intake and exhaust manifolds from pull-a-part 106.75

bought used nitrous kit with bottle heater and chopped up feed line and no pills for a 4bbl from a yardsale in a trailer park near fayetteville: 25

used and abused hoosier SM7 slicks: 20 for the set

Apexi SAFC $25 from craigslist in Raleigh

current total: 384.25

recoup total: 800

ok, so this car wasn't supposed to happen. I had thought about it, and decided against it. But when dad got back from his RV trip out west after $2017 with the AMC, he was bit hard by the challenge and wanted to build a 2018/2019 car with me. So I ventured my idea of a turbocharged NB Miata with a 3400 gm v6. He loved the idea, and layed $1000 on the table for me to work with. With my wife out of work right now, that's ALL we have to work with. Just cant financially do it right now otherwise. '

But I don't want to miss what may be my last opportunity to build a race car with my father. Hes in his 70s now, and I love spending time with him. We've built a few together over the years, and I always enjoy it. Its helped me to be the halfway decent father and husband that I am, as we always talk about a lot more than the metal in front of us. And hes a great guy to go on road trips and junkyard crawls with. So I jumped at the opportunity. We negotiated some deals to cover our gas to Ohio and back to pick up Patrick 3400, I sourced a trans in greenville SC while delivering a door to Tuna55 (thanks again for picking it up!), and started some threads learning about how to do this.

See, ive never turbocharged anything before. Or stuffed an American engine in a Japanese car without a kit. (SBC RX7 don't count). Or made something OBD2 compliant. So, this should be suitably difficult to be entertaining.

The basic plan, as it sits, is thus:

1. 2018/2019 GRM challenge

2. 3400 v6 5 speed

3. 325+ hp at the wheels

4. 2400lbs with driver

5. OBD2 compliant

6. NC street legal and inspected

7. sticks like superglue between your fingers

8. reliable

9. blue

now that that is is out of the way, I guess I should get on with the story of the car.

I bought this thing as a parts car. My DD 2000 got sideswiped by Mrs. Magoo, causing some nasty rear end noises. I also wasn't a fan of the peg leg. This car had a torsen, 3 core aluminum radiator, a 3 pack a day smoking habit, horrible plastidip, was half disassembled, and had a good top and supposedly rebuilt trans. So, for 800, I figured I couldn't loose.

I swapped the torsen into my car, gave the stereo to my niece, and then sold the engine and top to a fellow GRM member in Texas via the $2017 challenge. Kept the 3 core radiator, stripped the interior, and prepared it to finish parting out. I had kicked the idea around of rebodying Pinata (my 2000 DD), but had decided to not do that, as it was too much like work. Then I had kicked around building the parts car as a challenge car, but decided that now was not the financial time in my life to build a sequel to the AMC. Then dad handed me money. so...

well, what the hell. Why not?

Here's some pictures of how I bought the car, but not shown are the small appearance package, broken headlights, mangled right front fender, or front bumper cover. I hadn't planned a challenge build at first, so initial documentation is pretty pathetic.

20170920_174446 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20170920_174524 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20170920_174501 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20171006_091405 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

Stripping for parts:

20170921_202511 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20171008_100520 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20171121_154138 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

we moved it to dads place a few days ago. Much bigger shop, with a lift. And my dad. Him and I spent an hour today getting some more stripped out in preparation for depowering the rack and seam welding the chassis per flyin miatas recommendations on their page.

20171121_161932 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20171121_161928 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20171121_161917 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

new trans (shifter is in the trunk):

20171121_154214 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

pile of pull-a-part 3500 stuff:

20171121_125742 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20171121_170707 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

until next time friends.

You know I was impressed with the sling blade style shifter on the AMC.  Now a dog tail shifter.  Hope it don't wag trying to find a gear, unless he's pointer.    Good for you and Dad.   Lost my Dad 11 years ago, wasn't until I was much  older did we have quality time.   Go for somewhat broke.  You can do this, judging on past performance.

didnt even notice that dads dog got in here. awesome!!!

im really excited about this. sooo looking forward to spending more time with dad. 

Since you've already got one fender off, and chassis rigidity on your mind... y'all aughta consider fabbing up some "challenge style" frog arms