I can't comment on the specifics but this is what the factory parts manual shows:
I can't comment on the specifics but this is what the factory parts manual shows:
I was about to say what enginenerd said, but with more tables and a little highlighting. Here's mine:
This comes from the ZF parts manual for the transmission:
Different part numbers for the years. ...but why and does it really matter.
The Porsche 986 Parts Catalog shows the different transmissions, but the controllers are compatible across the years. What is different? I'd ask a dealership parts guy or message "JFP_in_PA" through Renntech or the 986forum to be sure.
I don't have access to my factory service manual until tonight after work, but I don't expect it to have a clear answer either.
From a couple threads on Renntech, there are differences, but should work.
https://www.renntech.org/topic/33382-tiptronic-transmission-swap-in-986/
https://www.renntech.org/topic/37752-tiptronic-transmission-interchange/
Then there's a rebuild shop:
https://www.cogscogs.com/Replacement-transmission-320-00_c_209.html
Change of direction. with mine being a one year only, possibly half year only it looks like I'm going to get it rebuilt instead.
Thanks for all the input. Look for more updates once I get it out, unless I get stuck on the way. Busy week here at work with senior management in town from Korea so it may be the weekend before I get back to it.
thx all.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson :
It's still a nice compendium for others.
In reply to Hasbro :
True
So I was finally back in the garage yesterday. I spent 6 1/2 hours not quite being ready to drop the trans. Dropping the trans was never my intention, I hoped to get everything unbolted and the trans mounts loosened a couple of turns ready to drop it. I'm close, but no cigar and it took twice as long as I thought to not quite finish my assigned task.
I've claimed many times that these cars are easy to work on. This is the first time I've actually been frustrated with access, and it wasn't so much for the trans, but for the starter motor so I could access the flex plate bolts so the torque convertor will come out with the transaxle. I'm now wishing I'd taken advice and dropped the whole engine and trans together.
Finally I now have some concerns over the engine again, but I hope AAZCD (what is your actual name?) says I just need a new AOS.
Anyway, onto the issues and Q's.
For the uninitiated this is the top side of the engine. The starter hides under the air intake pipe and throttle body, so off it all comes. Damn that's unnecessarily difficult with lot's of air dampers and helmholtz chambers for NVH. I will certainly be investigating a less restrictive, simpler system for when it goes back together.
Rather worryingly note the oil near the connect where the cross pipe enters the left hand bank plenum. Then I also found this when I started taking bit apart. That's definitly oil in the intake. Now, is this just an AOS issue or do I have bigger issues going on?
Once down through that lot there is a hard plastic oil breather that runs from the front of the crank case across to the rear. This needed to be removed to get to the lower starter motor bolt and some of the electrical connections. This is held into the block with two small bolts. For the life of me I can't find a pic of the correct pipe online. I thought I'd snapped a pic, but apparently not. I'll get one tonight. The closest I can find is this:
Notice there are two hold down bolts. I could only see one, and 20+ year old plastic get's pretty brittle so the inevitable happened. YOu can see when I went to remove it with one bolt still there, crack, it snapped off. It's now got some shop towel stopping crud getting into my engine.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson :
Most of this frustration is probably do to the larger auto transmission and the clumsy factory exhaust. Removing the transmission from my 5 speed Boxster takes no more than 2 hours (I've pulled it during a track event and got the car back out before the last session).
here's some things I learned.
-The top bolts should be accessed through the engine bay.
-don't forget the nut on the bottom that's facing the opposite direction.
-You'll also need a star socket for one of the bolts. --A $75 transmission jack from harbor freight goes a long way!
-the bolts are all different lengths, pay attention to where they go
-when disconnecting the drive axles keep the car in neutral and put two lugs in the hub, then wedge a jack handle between them and the floor to keep the axle from rotating. This way you can work fast, loosing bolts, rotating the axle and then moving the back handle. Hopefully this makes sense.
Once the effing starter was off it wasn't hard to remove the flex plate bolts through the hole. Then onto the bell housing bolts. They are shown in this pic (Stolen from Pelican parts for clarity)
I have removed bolts B, C, D, E, and F. Bolt A is the triple square AAZCD warned about that needs a triple square and is very very tight access. Bolt G does not appear to be applicable on the auto. I can see where that is on the engine side, but on the trans side it's not a through hole and even if it were, there's part of the case blocking access to it. I'm 99% sure there's nothing there. I will have to go buy a short stubby tool to access A.
Then comes the trans mounts. I was thinking I'd just remove the strange external torx like nut that's sticking down from the mount below the black (sideways Y) shaped bracket. But I don't think there's tool access as it's blocked by the alloy subframe. Then I thought I'd undo the two fasteners from the black sideways mount to the trans, but they appear to be some kind of rivet which is non removable. Finally I figured I'd remove the alloy casting that goes between the black Y and the trans. You can see some of the fasteners. The issue with that is shown below.
If I remove those bolts it would prevent the trans being slid rearwards off the engine/bell housing before it could drop down. So, what's the correct part/fastener to remove before dropping the trans?
Also in the above pic note the large protrusion from the trans. That's the part I don't think is present on the manuals and blocks what would be access to fastener G above.
Thoughts?
In reply to Box4VIR :
I'm ahead of you most of the way. Everything is already done except the one triple square fastener A unless I"ve missed G, which I think is missing from the Auto. Planning on heading to HF for a trans jack and short triple square later.
So now I've outlined progress and where I'm stuck, I just want to re-visit what caused this teardown. The follwing are exerpts from my original diagnosis thread started June 21st last year when things went wrong.
Last night I felt the Boxster had a very slight stumble while cruising at steady throttle, but all was ok under any, even light, load. This morning my wife was on her way to work it stumbled, the check engine light came on and it died. She called me, I went over there to get her. By the time I got there it had restarted, moved a few yards and it died again. Now I'm really worried as once I got there I saw a small puddle of oil then a few drips where she'd moved forward. Obviously, I hear I may have the dreaded IMS bearing paperweight.
Quick history, chassis now was 96K. It got a brand new engine at 56K under warranty from Porsche. I bought the car three years ago with 72K on the clock. Regular Mobil one oil changes, the last done less than 1K miles ago. I'm back home figuring out how to get it here to have a look. Obviously, I'll drain (at least part of) the oil and look for contamination and pull the codes. What code does the IMS normally throw? Anything else to look for/check once I get it back here.
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Without repeating the whole thing I pulled the plugs, cylinders were all fine, nothing nasty in there and no sign or oil, water or unburned gas inthere. Phew. I cut open the oil filter. No issues. And dropped the pan, again nothing significant was found. There was one small metalic particel in the oil pan, pic below.
There was/is significant oil on the underside of the engine/trans in the bell housing area.
I then put it back together with some cheap oil and started it again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXyUtt5syW8
After idling for about five mins I took another vid underneath. I really don't like this noise. Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn_jO-A_ymY
After this the car sat for a while as I was out of work. I then started a new job bought three cars and life moved on. It was earlier this year that I towed the car to a local specialist. As soon as they started the car it howled, really loud and they instantly diagnosed a dead trans. When I went to pick it up I started it and man did it make a noise. It hadn't been that bad before, but people say it sounds just like the pump has failed in the trans.
The only reason I'm bringing this back up is I'm now concerned over all the oil I found in the intake. This may be an OAS, but the engine was new, replaced as a complete unit by Porsche only 40k miles ago. Do AOS's normally fail that soon?
Oh, one more thing went wrong. The plastic boss that guides the throttle cable through it's mounting bracket snapped. Yuu can see it hanging down in the middle of this pic. Trying to decide if JB weld will hold (hopeful but I doubt it) or if I'm going to have to replace the whole throttle cable. I can imagine that being a major PIA with a mid engine car. Comments on that are welcome.
Adrian_Thompson said:
If I remove those bolts it would prevent the trans being slid rearwards off the engine/bell housing before it could drop down. So, what's the correct part/fastener to remove before dropping the trans?
Also in the above pic note the large protrusion from the trans. That's the part I don't think is present on the manuals and blocks what would be access to fastener G above.
Thoughts?
I still have to catch up on reading a few posts, but wanted to post this first, just to see if it explains the transmission mount removal for you:
For the two bolts on the mount, you need to hold the bolt with a wrench while you remove the nut. The bolts lift up and out, but you may need to have the three bolts on the bracket removed first, so that you can move the mount enough to lift them.
In reply to AAZCD :
That makes total sense. The two on the top are the only two I hadn't considered.
thx
What AAZCD said, the mounts get completely removed from the car. The bolts that hold the mount to the car are some of the more annoying ones to deal with since you can't really see the bolt heads and have to find them by feel.
As for the triple square bell housing bolt. Not sure how the available space compares to the manual trans, though I can't imagine it being much worse. I did it using a triple square socket that looks like this with a wrench on the hex portion.
Adrian_Thompson said:Finally I now have some concerns over the engine again, but I hope AAZCD (what is your actual name?) says I just need a new AOS.
Hi Adrian, my name is Jonathan, but I go by Jon.
Rather worryingly note the oil near the connect where the cross pipe enters the left hand bank plenum. Then I also found this when I started taking bit apart. That's definitly oil in the intake. Now, is this just an AOS issue or do I have bigger issues going on?
Most likely the AOS. For some reason, I couldn't see the pic.
Once down through that lot there is a hard plastic oil breather that runs from the front of the crank case across to the rear. This needed to be removed to get to the lower starter motor bolt and some of the electrical connections. This is held into the block with two small bolts. For the life of me I can't find a pic of the correct pipe online. I thought I'd snapped a pic, but apparently not. I'll get one tonight. The closest I can find is this:
The big rigid tube with the elbow that you pictured is the oil filler tube. The other portion of it that's held on with a clamp, goes back to the trunk where the engine oil goes in. I was just working on my '97 and found that the oil filler tube wasn't even bolted on. Makes for quite a mess. I do have a spare one still from a parts car, but I don't think the new ones cost much.
It may be too late for this time, but here's my starter removal video:
One last note for today... The bell housing bolts (A) through (H) - it's not uncommon to have one absent after 20 years of maintenance (including a replacement engine), but I'm pretty sure that one of my Tiptronic cars had (G) as seen on the cardboard below. I just took a look at my '97 manual transmission car and there's just a hole there with no bolt. My B5 Passat/A4 cardboard has (G), but not (H). ...What I'm trying to say is: Look for a bolt - if it's not there, no problem. I did crack a bell housing (Audi) once when I thought I had them all out and just kept prying. If it doesn't separate with moderate force, find what you missed before you break it.
Also, I did put a small piece of pipe on the 8mm wrench holding the triplesquare to get enough leverage. Buy tools with a "Lifetime Guarantee", wear gloves and safety glasses.
Thx Jon.
I picked up a Harbor Freight trans jack and went to Lowes to get that exact set last night. Having seen how tight access is I can see why you recommend that tool. Bargain, only $14.95 in store. Progress will slow again for a few days. Working late tonight, GRM beer night tomorrow then off to Toronto for a couple of days and I need to fit a tow bar, electrics and brake controller to the Volvo this coming weekend ready for towing the camper from Michigan to Florida the following weekend. I still want it out before I leave.
So this is the broken oil fill tube. The part number is 996.107.015.05. I can find various pics online of the part, most with different hooks / locating devices for other parts. No one lists the part number for sale so I assume it changed several times and has been superseded.
Jeff (Geraheadotaku), can you see if it's been replaced by another part #?
Thx
The differences in the part over the years of the 986 is inconsequential.
This: https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/99610715003/ and buy a little thing or two to get the >$49 free shipping.
Or you can find a few used ones on eBay that cost a few $ more.
Wow, time has passed. Excusses first. We went to Florida on vacation a couple of weeks after the last post. That meant getting a tow hitch, wiring, brake control and fitting them to the Volvo, that was a full weekend blown. Then I talked ti the guy who is going to rebuild the trans. He couldn't pick up so I had to finish putting my new trailer together. By the time I did that and got the trans out he was able to pick it up, so no need for my trailer. Doh! Oh well, at least it's finished and ready for other uses now.
So the trans came out. I bought the exact same triple square set as AAZCD recomended and man, no way bolt A below is coming out without it.
In fact I had to do this to apply enough torque to get it undone.
I can also confirm that autos (Tiptronic) cars don't have bolt G in the above.
I bought one of those HArbor Freight trans jacks to get it out, you can see it in this pic. No, in retrospect I have no idea why I took it off the jack after removal as I had to put it back on to move outside for pickup. It seemed to make sense at the time.
Anyway, I also had to remove all external bits before pick up. This is what it looked like just before it left today. I'm not sure how much it weighs, but I bet over 200lb's, way more than any trans I've pulled before, but I've never worked with an auto before, and I guess there's a hell of a lot more metal inside an auto than a manual.
So the guy rebuilding it has got super busy. Apparently with Corona virus and people staying at home, everyone is working on their cars and he's super busy so it's going to be three weeks until he's finished it. No problem, lot's to do.
So, what do people do to clean engines and engine bays when the car is immobile up on jack stands without making a huge mess inside? I'm thinking of 50% simple green in a squirt bottle and some soft brushes. Any better ideas?
Of course it's heavy, it's HUGE Adrian. Makes that MINI look positively mini!
Spray brake cleaner for the nasty stuff and lots of scrubbing. Got a pressure washer?
wawazat said:Spray brake cleaner for the nasty stuff and lots of scrubbing. Got a pressure washer?
Yes I've got a pressure washer, but I'm not using it inside my garage!!!! Remember the car is on jackstands inside the garage. I'll leave the garage door open and you can look from afar if you like, I'll even leave you a beer at the end of my drive if you like!!
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