Eh, all cast iron save for the intake, and have you seen the convolution that is AMC's front timing cover / distributor / oil pump? Same reason a Buick 350 weighs more than a Chevy 350, that goofy stuff on the front and there's more meat in the thing where it matters. 100lb seems a little high but not shocking.
AMC blocks were cast out of high-nickel content alloy...I would assume there is some weight in the material itself, as Ni is 'heavier' than Fe. AMCs are physically larger than a SBC or a SBF...they are almost like a 'medium-block' size-wise.
Size. ST_ZX2 has it right on the money. The SBC is designed for 400ci max at the factory, and those were overstressed. It's a very "small" engine in physical dimensions without much web thickness, etc. The AMC V8 went up to 401ci stock (and 500+ can go into it easily) and the block's physical size is much larger. It is comparable to the aforementioned Buick motors (350-400-455) and Pontiac (389-400-455).
And yes, the T/A motors were de-stroked 360's (which share the same bore as a 401, so saying de-stroked 401 is correct as well).
Javelin wrote: And yes, the T/A motors were de-stroked 360's (which share the same bore as a 401, so saying de-stroked 401 is correct as well).
Almost; 401 was 4.165 bore and the 360 was a 4.080...the race motors were destroked 360s made from AMC 'service' blocks that had additional webbing for machining in the 4-bolt main caps. Some of the 'service' blocks were made into 360s that were found in the Donohue Javelins, all in an effort to homologate the part as a 'production' item per the SCCAs rules.
The service blocks were also used to make industrial pumps for agriculture. We had a warehouse full of them my Grandfather had purchased after they were replaced with a newer motor.
stroker wrote:ST_ZX2 wrote: According to Donohue, the AMC F5000 engine make just under 500hp at 8000rpm, whereas the best Chevy they had previously made 480--the big difference was that the AMC engine was about 100 pounds heavier than a SBC. As I recall, the F5000 and T/A engines (5.0L max) were based on destroked 4.08" bore block (360) blocks with a Moldex crank. They ended up as 304s, but were not anywhere close to the 'street' 304, which was a 3.75" bore.One Hundred Pounds??? Where do you hide that in the block and heads, for crying out loud? I was looking for some information on the F5000 engines last year and tried Googling "Franz Weisz" (sp?) but got nowhere. He must be gone now.
If the Chevy 350 was a small block and the 454 was a big block, the AMC engines were medium blocks. At least that's how I understand it.
schawing!
Normal Updates (3/20/2011):
So after an off weekend to start autocrossing, it’s back to the Javelin! First up is replacing that bad coil. With an MSD Blaster unit of course. ;)
I’m not sure if that will stay or an HEI goes in, but for now it will do the job, and better than a stock one, for about $5 more.
Hmmm, coil didn’t do it (even though the old one tested bad). Only one thing left then, the pickup in the distributor. For some reason I thought this car (and all 73/74 AMC’s) had electronic ignition. Surprise! It doesn’t. My AMC-fu is rusty as that’s the 3rd thing I’ve gotten wrong on this car…
Anyways, out came the points (GM style) and in went a new setup, complete with condenser and all. It has a “bridge” instead of a wire for reliability. This definitely won’t stay long-term, but it was needed today!
So after months of trying, buying and swapping parts, testing things, and generally working my way up to it, it all came down to this very moment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl9CkYMBCVA
The smoke in the pipe lets you know the old girl is running! The engine actually fires right up and idles nicely. Revs pretty well (initial tip-in stumble though). It comes up to temperature, no leaks (oil or coolant), and has great oil pressure. Awesome! I’m sooooo happy! I can’t believe this poor motor actually runs, and runs this well!
When in doubt, read the f-ing manual! This is an original 1974 AMC TSM (the 73’s should be identical) that I have used for this project. It also has original wiring diagrams, which are invaluable!
I also have to thank my Father and Grandfather both for helping out, with parts, encouragement, and advice, not to mention the initial AMC-headedness anyways.
I also would like to thank the GRM board for being supportive and really helping out with advice. I couldn’t have done it without y’all.
So now that the 360 runs, where to go from here? Well, here’s the plan:
* First I need to get the engine up to temp again and change the oil and filter.
* The coil had a broken stud and needs to be swapped out.
* The ground strap needs to be fixed or rerouted.
* The ignition switch needs to be checked so the key will work.
* The front brakes need to be gone through.
Then it’s off to the rear of the car, where once in the air I will check the trans to see if it turns the wheels, fix the rear brakes, get the gas tank refurbished, and change the diff oil. Once that’s done, it’s test drive time!
What about the pic Michael? Well that’s the 401 I’ve owned for 7 years that will eventually go into the Javelin (maybe). It’s kind of the impetus behind this whole project.
This has all of the updates in order from purchase until now in case you'd rather read it than the build thread.
Reverse suspense, this is try #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h59wWJGEkcc
And an intro video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86-fs-ONFyk
Sweet! Nice resurrection. Looking forward to the first burnout video 
Nicely done.
First burnout will take awhile unfortunately 
The desire to just take the car off the jackstands and drive is very, very strong!
Yay! Parts shopping at Summit for a running car is way more fun!
Update: 4/11/2011
Lots of work going on the Javelin since I confirmed that it ran! I attended the local BIG swap meet (all of PIR's track in and out plus all 4 halls of the Portland Expo Center) where I nabbed a new steering wheel from a 73 AMX, and replacement 360 4-Bbl stickers for the motor.
Then yesterday was the first sunny day we've had all spring and it was on all day for car work! First I got the Javelin started again (she fired right up). The engine was run for a good 15-20 minutes and came up to operating temperature. The carb idled down, the throttle is nicely responsive, and the gauges all seem to work.
This is how it’s fueled for now. Basically, I have no idea what kind of shape the tank and lines are in so this fuel hose goes directly to the fuel pump. No leaks (yet) in the fuel system with the E10 gas we have now. Obviously this has to be addressed before driving…
After running up to temp again the old oil was drained. It actually looked pretty good! Minimal sludge, no metallic pieces, and the right consistency. It was slightly gassed down and there was obviously penetrating oil in there. A fresh Wix filter was installed, along with 5 quarts of Valvoline Racing oil (higher ZDDP for the flat-tappet cam).
Now that the engine has been run up to temp a few times and has clean oil there is noticeably less smoke out of the tailpipes. The 360 seems to be in very healthy shape!
The next step to getting the Javelin totally operational is to change the brakes. The system is totally dry and drums to boot, so it’s all going away. I am working on getting the correct 71-74 Kelsey-Hayes front disc setup (a 360 SST with power brakes is supposed to have them already) for the front to replace these useless drums. A new master cylinder and booster will also be included.
While the suspension is no doubt tired, it should be OK for the inspection to get her road-worthy again. The shocks are actually recent (ish) Monroe Sens-A-Tracs and the springs are solid. The bushings all need to be replaced, but the ball joints are tight. The front suspension is a unique design with a lower arm and torsion bar, spindle, upper A-arm, and a shock w/spring. There are a few bolt-on packages to upgrade things. Also, mine does already have a front sway bar.
And that brings us back up to speed. Autocrossing next week, so I will be focused on the Porsche for a bit, but I will be trying to locate parts, namely the front disc setup, an air cleaner, belts, hoses, master cylinder and booster, brake lines, and headers...
Ford Explorer 8.8, as I recall is nearly a bolt-in, has RDBs, can come with 3.37 posi and has the corrrect bolt pattern--and are a dime-a-dozen.
It'll be much stronger than the 20 and give you lots of options--like a factory Torsen (Ranger).
ST_ZX2 wrote: Ford Explorer 8.8, as I recall is nearly a bolt-in, has RDBs, can come with 3.37 posi and has the corrrect bolt pattern--and are a dime-a-dozen. It'll be much stronger than the 20 and give you lots of options--like a factory Torsen (Ranger).
That is the plan!
Update: 4/21/2011
Been concentrating on the Porsche, but I haven't totally forgotten the Javelin.
I picked this up at the swap meet at PIR a few weeks ago, an original 71-74 AMX steering wheel (in maroon!) to replace my horrific Javelin unit. I think this is one of the coolest factory wheels ever. I will dye it black and install it sooner or later.
Cool deal! Just wondering why you ran the engine with ancient, contaminated oil? I've always drained whatever glop was in barn finds, filled with fresh, then run and drain again(sometimes to drain all the Marvel oil or whatever else was used to coax it back to life.
forzav12 wrote: Cool deal! Just wondering why you ran the engine with ancient, contaminated oil? I've always drained whatever glop was in barn finds, filled with fresh, then run and drain again(sometimes to drain all the Marvel oil or whatever else was used to coax it back to life.
The oil that was in the engine actually looked totally fresh. I honestly suspect that it got changed sometime in the last 28 years, and more than likely fairly recently. Add in the fact that fuel was washed into it and all of the cylinder lube upon first start-up and it didn't really make sense to put fresh stuff in for ~10 minutes of run time. It had great oil pressure the whole time and no sludge or FOD came out when I drained it, so I think it was the right call.
Anyways, new oil is in there now and she's running really nicely. 
Saw one of these at the gas station the other day. Cool cars
don't make that mechanical fuel pump suck uphill too much. they don't like it.
Updates 4/25/2011:
Now that the Javelin is a confirmed runner I need to start focusing on other tasks, but I still have some minor details to attend to in the engine bay. Namely it doesn’t have an air filter, the hoses are all ready to burst, the battery needs a hold down, the ground strap needs to be re-located, and the fuel lines need to get hooked up. The first step though was taking a small pressure washer to the grunge and grime! I can’t stand a dirty engine, and once driving this motor will receive fresh paint, some shiny bits, and some general TLC.
De-molding: Well yes, the actual trim molding will come off too, but right now I’m talking about the stuff that grows in the shade and causes health problems. We had a gloriously sunny day on Saturday so I took a pressure washer to the car to get all of the mold, leaves, dirt, and grime off of it. Unfortunately, the interior seems to have developed a nasty case of it and will need to be tossed. It’s okay though, as the dash was really the only thing I was planning on keeping anyways.
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