1993 Ford Escort KL swap / SCCA SMF build

4cylndrfury wrote: looking great Ben! but honestly thats one of the few wagons that DONT look better than its sedan or coupe counterpart...but to each his own. I will say thats one of the cleanest 323s Ive seen in some time. Part of me wants to see that setup stay in the deathscort....ultimate sleeper.

It's also technically the wrong chassis... that 323 is BF, Escort is a BG. Not sure if i could get the BG suspension on the BF without swapping subframes without running into some really weird geometry issues. And swapping subframes = illegal, unless all years of 323 are on same line in Appendix A... hrmmmm....

I think i just need to hold out for a BG 323 hatch.

badass

Swank Force One wrote: ...Using 2/0 8-strand wire for power and 1/0 8-strand wire for ground has bit me in the ass. Couple that with a 44lb 850cca battery... ...this setup will be lifted... and i'll go with some crazy 10lb total battery setup including cables.

I love ya like a sista but what in the world are you doing with power wire that large? Why is the battery that big? And why are you making things this hard early if you're going to swap this stuff to a different car and use some lightweight action later?

Your methods confuse me. Here's what I'd do; find out the amperage draw required, size cables a single gauge step above that, and a stock sized battery for the chassis (because I'm 100% sure it would be sufficient). What are your connectors like on this double aught stuff? And why did you use different sized cables?? Half the circuit is bigger than the other now, this is a negatively grounded chassis, why did the source go smaller than the return?

pres589 wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: ...Using 2/0 8-strand wire for power and 1/0 8-strand wire for ground has bit me in the ass. Couple that with a 44lb 850cca battery... ...this setup will be lifted... and i'll go with some crazy 10lb total battery setup including cables.

I love ya like a sista but what in the world are you doing with power wire that large? Why is the battery that big? And why are you making things this hard early if you're going to swap this stuff to a different car and use some lightweight action later? Your methods confuse me. Here's what I'd do; find out the amperage draw required, size cables a single gauge step above that, and a stock sized battery for the chassis (because I'm 100% sure it would be sufficient). What are your connectors like on this double aught stuff? And why did you use different sized cables?? Half the circuit is bigger than the other now, this is a negatively grounded chassis, why did the source go smaller than the return?

I honestly don't even know. It was a stupid idea and i fully realize that now.

Soooo... on the offchance i even have the money to go another route right now: How do i figure out amperage draw required?

The connectors are copper from WiringProducts.com. Used different sized cables because my buddy who's helping me finish this car suggested it. I don't know why, i didn't ask questions, i'm not well-versed in electrical stuff, and i figured he knew more than i did.

I want to see this beast in the Escort. I know the chassis is a mess, but you've gotten it this far. It would be a shame to be this close just to pull it all out and redo the whole thing.

So what are you gonna do paint wise? Plasti dip?

In reply to Swank Force One:

The connectors are probably fine if you went whole hog with good components. O'Reilly (I know, grain of salt) suggests a 4 gauge cable for the Millenia and I bet you're not stressing things more than that car would. I picked this because the motor is similar and there's a lot of extra stuff on that car which yours would lack. The biggest battery for the Millenia suggested by batteriesplus.com is 585 CCA, smallest for the blower cars is 490. It looks like the Escort came with something like 520 CCA. So a stock sized Escort battery should do you just fine and I bet you have the factory battery tray in this thing or nearby, right? If so, boom, easy.

There's PM's flying but I kind of want people to see that I'm suggesting this and can add to the discussion if they want.

Spoolpigeon wrote: I want to see this beast in the Escort. I know the chassis is a mess, but you've gotten it this far. It would be a shame to be this close just to pull it all out and redo the whole thing. So what are you gonna do paint wise? Plasti dip?

It'll stay in the Escort either way for now... and i may even fix the rust, but that'll depend if i can get close to minimum weight. If i can't, then a 323 hatch is in my future.

Paint wise if we keep it, will be that weird Grey/purple metallic DSM color.

pres589 wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: The connectors are probably fine if you went whole hog with good components. O'Reilly (I know, grain of salt) suggests a 4 gauge cable for the Millenia and I bet you're not stressing things more than that car would. I picked this because the motor is similar and there's a lot of extra stuff on that car which yours would lack. The biggest battery for the Millenia suggested by batteriesplus.com is 585 CCA, smallest for the blower cars is 490. It looks like the Escort came with something like 520 CCA. So a stock sized Escort battery should do you just fine and I bet you have the factory battery tray in this thing or nearby, right? If so, boom, easy. There's PM's flying but I kind of want people to see that I'm suggesting this and can add to the discussion if they want.

Yeah, they're all good connectors and i have a few 4awg anyways.

I don't have the factory battery try in this thing, and i kinda honestly don't think it would fit anymore.

Thinking about slapping something together with this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all76101

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all76114

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dui-5575b

If i order today, i can have all that in my hands and in the car on Friday.

Is they Dynabat sealed or vented? If vented you'll want to get a real box around the thing and run a tube of some sort out and away from the frame of the car. What I'm grappling with is the amperage requirement and voltage drop that you can deal with on this thing. 4awg cable might cut it, might not and have to go to 2awg.

I should know this... the problem is finding the true amperage requirement to start this thing. Once that's figured out I think you're good. 4awg would work under the hood but ~15ft of the stuff and the drop may become too great for a reliable start. Anyone have input?

It's sealed.

Ordered the battery and the "box."

I'm almost thinking about just using 2awg to be conservative about the whole thing. I have another set of battery terminals i could use to do this already, and quality 2awg lugs are easy for me to find locally.

I may not get the "kit" and just grab another 20ft of 2awg cable locally, and piece this together like that.

The only thing i'm not real sure about is the AWG like you, as well as how many ground points i really need.

My original plan:

1) Ground from battery to rear of car.
2) Ground from battery up into distribution block in engine bay. (1/0 in, 4 x 4awg out)
3) Ground motor
4) Ground trans
5) Ground each front corner of chassis

Dumb overkill?

In reply to Swank Force One:

Skip Ground #2 and #4. I don't know what #5 means, ground each corner of the chassis? It's like you take a component, and cable it to a ground stud, but I don't know what the component is.

2awg should be fine and would be easier to work with than the aught stuff you're fighting now.

Dumb question but how is this SM legal? I didn't know the engine was ever offered in the Escort or 323. Am I just missing part of the rules?

That engine didn't have to be offered, as long as that brand of engine was.

pres589 wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: Skip Ground #2 and #4. I don't know what #5 means, ground each corner of the chassis? It's like you take a component, and cable it to a ground stud, but I don't know what the component is. 2awg should be fine and would be easier to work with than the aught stuff you're fighting now.

3, 4, and 5 are using #2 as a way to ground directly to battery. #5 is just additional chassis-to-battery grounds.

Sorry... i mean by doing that, each of those points would be grounded directly to battery. Am i just running one ground from battery to chassis? Then the other ones to chassis and let it do its thing?

93EXCivic wrote: Dumb question but how is this SM legal? I didn't know the engine was ever offered in the Escort or 323. Am I just missing part of the rules?

DILYSI Dave wrote: That engine didn't have to be offered, as long as that brand of engine was.

Bingo!

Mazda engine in it from factory, i could put a damn triple rotor in this thing if i felt like it. (In theory, at least.) I could also put a Lincoln 32v V8 in it.

DILYSI Dave wrote: That engine didn't have to be offered, as long as that brand of engine was.

16.1.D.1 says: Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps involving makes related only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents. Models produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that an engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that particular model

Am I misreading that rule cause to me that says that the engine must be an option in the car or an alias of the car?

93EXCivic wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: That engine didn't have to be offered, as long as that brand of engine was.

16.1.D.1 says: Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps involving makes related only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents. Models produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that an engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that particular model

Am I misreading that rule cause to me that says that the engine must be an option in the car or an alias of the car?

Yes, you are misreading it.

Roughly, it means this -
1. Open the hood.
2. Read the valve cover.
3. Install anything with the same name on the valvecover.

In reply to DILYSI Dave:

Why do the SCCA rules have to be so confusing?

93EXCivic wrote: In reply to DILYSI Dave: Why do the SCCA rules have to be so confusing?

BECAUSE LAWYERSPEAK

Here's what I'd do. Others, again, chime in if there's any opinions.

From the negative battery post in the back of the car, take a short cable and go to a good ground. If you don't have easy access to a welder, drill a hole through the heaviest metal you can find in the car back there, like floor metal where it meets the subframe or something along those lines, and clean the hole of all paint and debris and use a ring terminal, all the related hardware, and die-electric grease to keep the crud out.

Same at the front. Cable from the block and cable from the ground side of the starter. Heavy short cables to a bolt. No paint under any of the hardware, and grease to keep it clean and happy. The car is your negative cable.

pres589 wrote: Here's what I'd do. Others, again, chime in if there's any opinions. From the negative battery post in the back of the car, take a short cable and go to a good ground. If you don't have easy access to a welder, drill a hole through the heaviest metal you can find in the car back there, like floor metal where it meets the subframe or something along those lines, and clean the hole of all paint and debris and use a ring terminal, all the related hardware, and die-electric grease to keep the crud out. Same at the front. Cable from the block and cable from the ground side of the starter. Heavy short cables to a bolt. No paint under any of the hardware, and grease to keep it clean and happy. The car is your negative cable.

By "ring terminal" you just mean a good copper cable lug, right?

Went with 2awg wire, will finish running that up into the fuse box today, new battery is out for delivery right now already, so that'll be put in tomorrow. :)

Spent yesterday tearing out the old battery setup and returning it, and then started marking what body harness wires i can cut.

Called James, who was super helpful as usual, and also made me realize just how WEIRD this particular car is.

It's a 1993 with power mirrors and power sunroof. Manual locks and window. No ABS, no airbags, and had the Premium Sound option.

However... BECAUSE FORD, it has the plugs for the airbag crash sensors up in the engine bay. o_O So that'll go away.

My main question was related to the picture below. (You can kindof see the other harness coming up behind the strut tower, all of that but the wiper will be removed.

The question was: The plug missing in the fuse box... seems to be for a 3-prong white female plug that's on the engine harness, near the DIAG box. My theory is that the plug doesn't actually do anything UNLESS you're jumping the diag box to test fuel pump. Sound theory? Tracing the fuel pump wiring seems to suggest that it goes up the body harness and is already plugged into the car. What do you guys think?

how am i just now finding this build?

this sets my loins afire. i can't stop looking a those velocity stacks. so shiny and...stacky! mmmm!

In reply to Swank Force One:

http://elcodis.com/photos/4/88/48826/33457_tmb.jpg

I can't get images to post in my comment. We're probably talking about the same thing.