2011 Challenge Rules

Per Schroeder said: I can pretty easily just say, "no self trades." wait. I just did. Done.

OH SNAP! Judge, Jury, and Executioner

Per Schroeder wrote:

PhilStubbs wrote: In reply to Per Schroeder: Full civic interior for $150 in mandrel bends and couplers? Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Here's where I fall back on the "is it meeting the spirit of the rules?" question. That's pretty shady. I can pretty easily just say, "no self trades." wait. I just did. Done.

Maybe I misunderstood the idea then. That seems like an exact scenario of what I read the the rule.

Phil- You know of the Supreme Court- where they can change the interpretation of a rule with one judgement?

Well, Per = Supreme Court for the Challenge. So....

Although, it's pretty amusing that he uses the British version of law as visual representation, so you can see his silver wig under his helmet as well as lots of black waiving in the wind when he's driving a convertable that weekend....

Per Schroeder wrote:

PhilStubbs wrote: In reply to Per Schroeder: Full civic interior for $150 in mandrel bends and couplers? Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Here's where I fall back on the "is it meeting the spirit of the rules?" question. That's pretty shady. I can pretty easily just say, "no self trades." wait. I just did. Done.

Umm, so is this official? so I can trade my wheels to myself for another set of wheels?

PhilStubbs wrote: In reply to Per Schroeder: Full civic interior for $150 in mandrel bends and couplers? Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Depends on the situation... i've pulled civic interiors out of junkyards for under $70, but then again, to the right Honda boi, a clean complete interior could go for $300+ depending on trim.

watchdoc wrote:

Per Schroeder wrote:

PhilStubbs wrote: In reply to Per Schroeder: Full civic interior for $150 in mandrel bends and couplers? Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Here's where I fall back on the "is it meeting the spirit of the rules?" question. That's pretty shady. I can pretty easily just say, "no self trades." wait. I just did. Done.

Umm, so is this official? so I can trade my wheels to myself for another set of wheels?

Looks official, and looks like that's precisely what you can't do because of the ruling.

Oh well, looks like I will be "skating" around the autox with some Uniroyal all seasons. Corner workers beware :)

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

PhilStubbs wrote: In reply to Per Schroeder: Full civic interior for $150 in mandrel bends and couplers? Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Depends on the situation... i've pulled civic interiors out of junkyards for under $70, but then again, to the right Honda boi, a clean complete interior could go for $300+ depending on trim.

Exactly. My car is a 91 civic that had a 100% complete and mint interior. $150 is a deal. I don't care too much, it was more for future reference since my car is built already and budgeted.

Are you out of room in your budget to recoup money?

I'm not sure how it all falls of the top of my head. I am pretty much finished spending money on budget affecting items though. Only thing left is roll cage and safety stuff.

So does anyone need Ford bolt pattern wheels/sticky DOT rubber? Ford 17x9 and 17x10.5's with good 245 40 17's and 315 35 17 Hoosier A6's. 75% or better. Mounted tires but never run. $400.00 in Atlanta. More pic's at: http://s421.photobucket.com/albums/pp298/TenFlatTires/

I'd buy a Mustang just to bolt those to.

In reply to hrdlydangerous:

BWAHAHAHAHA,Your like me buy a cool part and then buy a car to put them on.lol

$150 is still a great deal when you consider all you get. Average autocross is $40, Drag race $30, Three dinners $45, Coverage in a national magazine, awesome stories to come away with, cool friends to hang with, and all the beer you can drink... Priceless

In reply to Gasoline:

You have mail!

You stay away from those Josh. I think they would go well on the LeMons RX-7 if we have to run that instead of the current one.

In reply to Greg Voth:

They are pretty pretty pretty. I want them. Besides: people keep giving me money and I need to spend it!

Those need to be on my MG - mustang spindles, mustang rear... you have more mail gasoline

But we gave you some of that money for your stuff therefore we can dictate how it is spent.

Thats how the govt works too right?

Wheels and tires are sold. Thanks Josh.

Now anyone road tripping from GA to Fla with room?

OK, we're starting a build, and I just want some clarification about FMV, and build-budget integrity. A lot of parts we're looking at have set prices, and we'd be buying them straight up, so those costs are obvious to me. What I can't quite figure out is FMV of things we already own, or get as trade.

Say we have a set of wheels, or an engine already sitting around the garage. They were purchased at some point before the project started, so do we use the original purchase price (from months, or even years ago), or can we offer it to the GRM/eBay/CList gods for a FMV determination?

Also, does labor count as budget? If we traded labor hours for parts. Do those parts have to be factored in at FMV once they're on the car?

MrMook wrote: Say we have a set of wheels, or an engine already sitting around the garage. They were purchased at some point before the project started, so do we use the original purchase price (from months, or even years ago), or can we offer it to the GRM/eBay/CList gods for a FMV determination?

This is what FMV was created for. You can do either, but it is likely FMV will work better for you.

MrMook wrote: Also, does labor count as budget? If we traded labor hours for parts. Do those parts have to be factored in at FMV once they're on the car?

This is NOT what FMV is for. You can't trade your labor for parts. Your labor is a commodity without value. You can put as much of it as you want in the car, but you can't trade it for parts, paid labor, or any other car related expense.

You CAN, however, do the reverse. You can trade parts that are already included in the budget for labor you would otherwise pay for. For example, your car came with an extra set of wheels. You can trade these wheels to a welder in payment for welding your cage.

Trading is unlimited until you have hit your recoup limit, at which point you are no longer allowed to trade.

Paul is a very helpful man. Thanks Paul!

Per

SVreX wrote: ... This is NOT what FMV is for. You can't trade your labor for parts. Your labor is a commodity without value. You can put as much of it as you want in the car, but you can't trade it for parts, paid labor, or any other car related expense...

I don't think I entirely agree with this. seems to me that figuring out how to do labor for a part you need is pretty grassroots. i don't have a dog in this particular fight but here's a hypothetical:

John Q. Neighbor has a 3 acre yard, a pushmower, works on his own cars and has a rear end collecting dust in his shed that would be useful to you. You both arrange an agreement where you keep his lawn mowed for two months over the summer and he gives you the rear end.

so this works well for you in your actual wallet, but now how do you budget it? FMV like the OP mentioned? Is the part free since your labor is "Free"? charge $22.69 to the budget for the large $2 gatorade you drank every week for 10 weeks and the bottle of $2.69 sunscreen you went through while mowing? (could count gas if you have a riding mower of your own to use) other potential impact to a ruling on this would be if this arrangement could have occurred with anyone in the neighborhood. Would John have trusted Billy Teenager on the next block to do it? Do you charge what a lawn service would have for two months?

I apologize if the rules already specifically say that you cannot trade labor for parts but I don't have time left on my lunch hour to check them.