$2012 Challenge rules

93EXCivic wrote:

mtn wrote:

SVreX wrote:

Per Schroeder wrote: I'm seeing people show up with some pretty fresh Hoosier A6s and claiming them as free from other autocrossers. It's something we can't police, so we can at least make it interesting by biasing it towards our presenting sponsor.

I like giving the best sponsor an advantage. Perhaps the "free" A6's could be combated with a heavier application of rules 31 and 32? I love you guys, but it looks a little soft sometimes. I thought "free" had to be FMVed.

If it is offered up to the public, free is FMV. That is my understanding, anyways. I've never participated or been to a challenge.

That is what I always though...

Hope so. That's the entire point of pulling all my body panels out of my neighbor's garbage

SilverFleet wrote:

Supercoupe wrote: Sucks on the timing of this years event and family obligations, especially since 2 years ago I said as long as it's not the first or second weekend of October that you want to get married is okay with my schedule. Should have just said to get married in the spring..

It seems that this happens to someone every year. Last year, it was me. Don't sweat it. It gives you an extra year of tuning time! As far as the tires thing goes... The rule is fine with me. I don't see it making a huge impact, because most of us are cheap bastards anyway, and will just get used slicks. Also, for those of us with possible Challenge cars that might see street time (like my CSX), it acts as an incentive to get Kumho tires for our cars. I plan on running my CSX in the next few years If I ever finish the car, and it needs tires anyway, so I might as well get some sticky summer-only Kumhos instead of the el cheapo tires I was going to get. It's not going to be a top contender anyway, because the car would probably be competing for the "Under $1000" class win, so I'm not concerned.

Tell me more about this CSX, and what is needed to make it come home with me!!!

In reply to spin_out:

I have a guy here next to me that races Corvettes and sells used sets of tires for 100-150 bucks.They are 17 and 18 in. tires most are 295 or 315 so if you need a set let me know he has Kumhos and Hoosiers but I have no idea what he will be selling or when so it will be pot luck.I got a set of Kumhos for 100 bucks last month and they are well worn but thats what I'm putting on my Vette for the challenge because I wanted to put more money in the drag side of it.Corvettes cant win the autox part of the challenge now because there just to big and the small cars have the handling down to a science,so were going for the drags this time.

SilverFleet wrote: As far as the tires thing goes... The rule is fine with me. I don't see it making a huge impact, because most of us are cheap bastards anyway, and will just get used slicks. Also, for those of us with possible Challenge cars that might see street time (like my CSX), it acts as an incentive to get Kumho tires for our cars. I plan on running my CSX in the next few years If I ever finish the car, and it needs tires anyway, so I might as well get some sticky summer-only Kumhos instead of the el cheapo tires I was going to get. It's not going to be a top contender anyway, because the car would probably be competing for the "Under $1000" class win, so I'm not concerned.

I will probably do the same with my MB if I bring it. I will probably throw some Kumhos on it.

This actually opens up a really intriguing option for us really-far-away types. Fly in, buy a cool random $1000 car, clean/polish it up, swap out the tires for new Kumho XS's, run the $1000 class at the Challenge, and drive it home to flip it or build it up.

poopshovel wrote:

SilverFleet wrote:

Supercoupe wrote: Sucks on the timing of this years event and family obligations, especially since 2 years ago I said as long as it's not the first or second weekend of October that you want to get married is okay with my schedule. Should have just said to get married in the spring..

It seems that this happens to someone every year. Last year, it was me. Don't sweat it. It gives you an extra year of tuning time! As far as the tires thing goes... The rule is fine with me. I don't see it making a huge impact, because most of us are cheap bastards anyway, and will just get used slicks. Also, for those of us with possible Challenge cars that might see street time (like my CSX), it acts as an incentive to get Kumho tires for our cars. I plan on running my CSX in the next few years If I ever finish the car, and it needs tires anyway, so I might as well get some sticky summer-only Kumhos instead of the el cheapo tires I was going to get. It's not going to be a top contender anyway, because the car would probably be competing for the "Under $1000" class win, so I'm not concerned.

Tell me more about this CSX, and what is needed to make it come home with me!!!

Well... Here's a build thread:1987 CSX Build Thread You'll see why the price was so low once you get to the pics.

As far as it going home with you... maybe someday I'd like to sell it. I'd like to finish it and drive it for a bit. I've never driven one, and I'm going through turbo car withdrawals ever since trading in my WRX.

Also, I have two friends that immediately called "dibs" before I even brought the thing home if I ever sell it.

If you really want one, there's usually a few for sale on the Turbo Mopar forum at any given time. there were two later '89 VNT models for sale on there last I checked.

Poop, I'll sell you mine. You just have to come and get it from Portland :)

BTW... just looked on the Tire Rack for some shoes for the CSX... When did Kumhos get so pricey?

93EXCivic wrote: A rollbar can be welded in but not a rollcage as long as the roll bar does not act as a brace to the suspension. And yes to your second question. Does anyone know if rollbar padding counts towards the budget or not?

Aside from the tire discussion (which I'm all for BTW), I'm seeking clarity on this one... the car I have purchased for the challenge already has a welded in cage (including door bars), it's a former ITA car but has all the other pre-reqs like headlight, horn, brake lights, etc.. we're basically building it for the challenge as a side project of simply restoring an old race car. Is this car simply not useable since it has a cage already welded in?

My reading of the rules was that a bolt in bar didn't go in the budget because it was 'only' a safety piece and didn't confer any performance advantage. Once you start welding things in then it's a performance part and has to be in the budget. It it's already part of the car and the car was purchased FMV with the cage in then you're cool. You can't discount the cost of the cage and pretend its not there though.
Unless I'm wrong.

That makes sense and that's how I understood it as well. I was just concerned that the car automatically is thrown out due to having a weld in cage. The car was a STEAL by all means, but was on CL and could have been bougth by anybody with the setup, so I think I'm good :)

I'll put a build thread up sometime in May when we actually start the restoration/build up, lol...

I agree with mazdeuce. Let's say you paid $1500 for the former ITA car (with cage already welded in). Then it's a $1500 car, cage included. If, however, you paid $2500 and were hoping to value the car at $1500 and the weld in cage at $1000, that won't work.

Javelin wrote: This actually opens up a really intriguing option for us really-far-away types. Fly in, buy a cool random $1000 car, clean/polish it up, swap out the tires for new Kumho XS's, run the $1000 class at the Challenge, and drive it home to flip it or build it up.

Us Gainesville GRMers would gladly aid and abet you in this process!

And what about if someone does like that guy that "rented" a car for LeMons? Or would FMV apply?

In reply to noddaz:
Renting a 25k car for $300 for the weekend does not make it a $300 car. You've purchased nothing, there is no car.

"As a matter of fact, i'm not even here. You never saw me."

the kumho clause doesn't really affect me. I just got my auto-x tires for the event : some $30 hankook r-s3's that are pretty far gone lol
I MAY end up buying some kumhos for next years car if I have the funds for it though.
I'm building this car as a racecar, the challenge is something very fun to make it affordable to start the build, it'll eventually be getting a very expensive engine and trans lol

SilverFleet wrote: BTW... just looked on the Tire Rack for some shoes for the CSX... When did Kumhos get so pricey?

[giggle] "Lifetime repairs"

Roll bar padding does not count towards the budget---that's a part of the roll cage installation. I'll make a note of that change.

ITA car budget value would be what you paid for it---can't do any budget monkeybusiness with the cage.

Gasoline wrote:

SilverFleet wrote: BTW... just looked on the Tire Rack for some shoes for the CSX... When did Kumhos get so pricey?

Almost $1700 spent on tires....on a $2012 Challenge car.

Wow.

I sometimes forget how huge and expensive tires can get. Wow.

I would like to come to the Challenge with my $2008 Mirage...which is now overbudget (still a budget build though). Is there still an exhibition class? I miss the challenge, and I have yet to start working on my next challenge car...I am badly in need of a GRM $2K Challenge fix.

Seems to be a lot of discussion about the tire rule that seems to matter/not matter much. I to have mixed feelings about it as my budget will be tight and I am trying to drive the whole way. So I need to drive on tires that will travel from North Idaho to Florida and back in a 2012 dollar car. I am sure it will work out in the wash, I am just glad you all only have this to worry about.

In a above post, I had a picture of my Kuhmo $1,750.00 tire purchase for my $2012 Challenge car. The post was deleted not by me.....Can someone tell me why?