2015 Subaru lineup...took a

In reply to Swank Force One:

Last I heard was ~$5k

mtn wrote:

Joe Gearin wrote: Love----it's what makes a Subaru a Subaru. WTF kind of marketing push is that? It makes me want to shoot out the TV Elvis-style whenever their terrible commercials come on. I like some of their cars--- but their marketing is horrid.

Their marketing makes my mom and my fiance go "oh that was such a sweet commercial. What kind of car was that?" And then I tell them, and they ask, "Are those good cars? Would I like one?" And I am forced to say yes, because they are good cars, and they would like them. (My mom doesn't ask that, because she knows that she loves them already)

Tell that to the folks with headgasket issues, etc. They aren't that great, really. Most people would be better off without the added weight and complexity of the AWD system. They could gain some interior and cargo space with a simple FWD wagon/minivan. They could gain mileage with a vehicle that was lighter, with more drivetrain loss and with better aerodynamics, etc.

I like the Crosstrek XV. It could replace my Wrangler and go probably 98% of the places I take my Jeep. But with just the 2.0L pushing 3100lbs, it seems pretty slow, even with the 5 speed manual. I think the turbo mill would greatly help with that.

Crosstrek XV STi?

Subaru has gone to the dogs. Seriously, have you seen the latest commercials? Their target demographic appears to be Golden Retrievers with three pups. Subarus are really big with the dog crowd, who put their pets at the top of their automotive needs list. Subaru caters to this with their wagons and hatches. Unfortunately, they found that turbo + Fifi in the hatch = smashed dog snout against the glass. So the turbos had to go.

Every time someone here says "Company X won't build or import what I want," I strongly suspect it means, "American new car buyers don't buy what I want so I can get a clean one 5 years later."

I am not going to judge any company that finds paying customers and builds what they want.

I followed the latest WRX home last night. My take was that it looks the most refined of any of them yet - almost AUDIish. But it's reminds me of why I passed on an Acura a couple of years ago: it's too nice.

-The first Subarus that I was aware of were the weapon of choice of the poor ski-bum. They were homely but admirable for their straightforwardness and reliability when Jeep was still making junk.

-With the advent of the WRX, Subaru entered another universe. Suddenly they were fun AND utilitarian. Yes, pure automotive enthusiasts liked them, but their core audience was the more aggressive end of the outdoors crowd. Not the old guy with the canoe on his van, but rather the young rock-climber/skier/surfer who wanted to get there fast.

-This era started showing signs of ending when the Forester went from being Impreza-based to Legacy-based, and got all bloated. Now we have the WRX/STI as well as the BRZ still waving the enthusiast flag, but the lack of a hatchback version of the WRX is significant as it's a statement that it expects its customer base to have "grown up" and into boring SUVs and sedans. I've always identified with the hardcore outdoor-enthusiast wing of Subaru fandom, and while I don't condemn them for looking the other way, I think that they lost a large portion of their soul in doing do.

I bought a new car in August. I would have bought another Subaru if they had the equivalent of my (dead nuts reliable) 2002 WRX wagon that I bought new. Wagon. Wagon. Wagon. I would have bought a Forester if they would sell with manual and an engine above 200 hp, and seats that weren't like school bus benches. I know the premium comes can come with a manual, but dealer said there were two in the country. Two.

I am a fan- good cars in my experience, but they lost me by not providing what I went to them for in the first place. Sporty, practical wagon. Forester could be that. Crosstrek shape prevents actual wagon utility. Outback huge and no manual (right?). Almost sprung for the puerile 2014 WRX hatch, but the '15 GTI Siren beckoned, and so there I went, and so far, I'm pretty happy. Beautiful car. Bought an extended warranty.

I think that my biggest issue is design.

Take away the AWD, boxer engines, and rally pedigree, Subaru had good designs. The Imprezas and Legacys of the late 90's to the late 2000's were good looking cars. The Subarus of the 70's into the early 90's looked very Utilitarian, like a car that you wouldn't feel bad to put a couple dents and scratches on. When you saw a Subaru, you knew it was a Subaru.

Now? The Impreza could be mistaken with a Corolla and the Legacy could be mistaken for an Accord. I think they need to go back to their own designs and stop trying to look like the flock.

How do you stand out when you actively try to make all your designs look like everyone else's?

My wife and I almost went with a Subaru Crosstrek about a month ago, until we drove it. First off, we really wanted a manual which we found impossible to locate for a test drive. Once we did, we went to the dealership, drove the car and realized that it was less modern than our 13 year old RSX. I know that it isn't apples to apples but can we at least get a 6 speed in 2015? Plus the other low-rent stuff and the turd engine, made me realize that they put all of their money into that AWD.

Which brought us to the Forester (which has a 6 speed). It felt like I was driving a much crappier version of my mom's 2005 CRV. Oddly enough we said screw it and I went out and bought a 2001 Pathfinder for weekend exploring. The Subaru's make a ton of sense out here in the PNW (as witnessed by the streets filled with them), and they are one of the last with manual options, but I'm not buying a new one until they make something more exciting.

Having said all of that, I would be at the dealership tomorrow if their line-up offered any of these choices:

1) Crosstrek + a turbo (I'd even settle for the Forester 2.5 + 6spd). 2) Forester XT + a 6spd manual. 3) WRX + wagon.

Subaru can do as they like, I will be buying 95-04 legacys( 03-06 bajas) for the rest of my life.

Feedyurhed wrote: I am never quite sure why everyone always wants to blame the manufacturer for Americas tastes. This is an enthusiast forum, we want a hot wagon with a manual. The fact of the matter is no on else does. Wagons don't sell and performance wagons sell even less. How many CTS V wagons do you see on any given day? Or AMG or BMW wagons? Or yellow or even red vehicles. Not many if any at all. The roads are full of grey and silver SUVs and CUVs. That's most of America. Certainly there are some areas like southern California and Florida that may be different but in general pretty bland and boring. Subaru knows this. And thank goodness they still make the WRX/STi and BRZ. And guess what? The BRZ isn't selling all that well anymore. We still get the Forrester XT........even though it's auto only now. So all things considered Subaru is doing well. It gives the enthusiasts some tasty nuggets but also knows what side it's bread is buttered on. They must be doing something right as they continue to set sales records. Wagons are dead in the states and hatchbacks may be soon to follow. Don't forget the huge decline in manuals too. We don't like it but those are the facts.

Yeah, you're right. Subaru was never able to sell the Impreza here when it was a 170hp, 2.5L tank of a car, because people thought that they were spending too much on gas. So, they put in a smaller, less powerful engine and a CVT. I don't know if they're selling that many more Imprezas, but they're definitely trying.

Personally, I liked the old 2.5L tank. It was kind of like the brand new analogue of an old AMC Eagle sedan. The general public doesn't want a showroom stock AMC Eagle, though, even at $19,750.

The Toyota influence has been strong, too, especially when it comes to styling: bicycle reflectors, weird prismatic taillamps that stick out too much, etc. Again, though, the general public seems OK with it.

I went to the Philly Auto Show and asked one of the reps if the WRX hatch will be coming back and she said no. There were a few other people around me who were going to ask the same thing and none of us were very happy with that decision. I'm happy that Subie still offers a couple models with three pedals but a good amount of their lineup just seems bland. They really need to bring back a plain jane Legacy Wagon plain and simple...!

Their marketing is funky and weird; but, my wife was perfectly okay with me buying an STI because it has the same safety features her Fozzy has. There's not much on the table with 4-door sports cars, with over 300hp, and a 6-speed on the market. And my mother-in-law just purchased a Foz like my wife's a couple of weeks ago because it's "safe" and "nice." My sister-in-law is going to trade her Corolla in for a Foz because her fiance found out Toyota was part owner of Subaru (He's a Tacoma for life guy).

Whatever Subaru is doing is working for them in terms of sales. This STI is insane in the handling department. It's cool having the old subie rumble as well; but, I have a feeling this engine is obsolete compared to what's on the market now and my boss's truck gets better MPGs.

But as much as I love the STI I feel like I went a step backwards with the quality compared to my 9th gen Si. The Civic has a better interior, better sound system, better paint, better quality materials, didn't rattle like all hell after 5k miles, and that's how I feel with my wife's Forester too. It's bad when you're like "Damn that new Honda fit I test drove for E36 M3s and giggles and costs $16500 has a better interior than this $34k car."

But hey they are selling cars like crazy....

We drove Subarus for years. Last one was a 1st gen Forester. After looking at the latest at an auto show 2 years ago my wife and I looked at each other and wondered WTF happened to the quirky but fun-to-drive cars Subaru used to make. They've become ugly and sterile. Not a single one did we find exciting. Our old friend the Impreza had become bland and cheap feeling (which is saying something for Subaru).

We are the target demographic of people who buy cars to haul dogs in. We had no interest in the new CRV...er...Forester.

Also, they have become far too expensive for what they are. We found a boxy, quirky and delightfully utilitarian Jeep Patriot to replace the aging Forester and haven't regretted the decision. The pseudo-Jeep has actually been cheaper to buy and own than our last Subaru.

In fairness to Subaru...

• The BRZ is nice

• They seem to have figured the gasket thing out

• The noise is just something to be dealt with. It's what makes a... (you know).

People miss the old styling and the real automatic transmission. Toyota styling and a CVT are, amazingly, even worse.

The interior in my '05 Legacy GT was definitly a step up from other Subarus of the time, very attractive design and good quality. But it was at least 10 years behind technologically even then. No nice little features that have become common. No speed sensative wipers. No retained power for the window when you turn the key off. Lots of little thinks like that are absent. On the flip side, it's a very simple car for the time.

This thread cracks me up. I would be shocked if the automotive enthusiast was even 5% of the population. You're running your large car manufacturing business very poorly if that is where you put all of your eggs.

As someone once told me, "its much easier to sell Neons than Vipers".

atm92484 wrote: This thread cracks me up. I would be shocked if the automotive enthusiast was even 5% of the population. You're running your large car manufacturing business very poorly if that is where you put all of your eggs. As someone once told me, "its much easier to sell Neons than Vipers".

Sure, but there are little oases in the desert, i.e. decent, enthusiast-friendly vehicles that slip through the corporate process and make it to production. If one of these oases seems to be drying up, that's noteworthy.