2016 Scion FR-S

Robbie---- I agree, it's amazing how fast nearly everything has become. I see that as other cars being fast, not the Twins being slow.

Heck, my Minivan has 282hp and does 0-60 in 7.9 seconds! That's about as fast as the Ferrari 308 GTSi that Magnum P.I. drove!

The thing is, although nearly everything is fast these days, not everything is fun. Cars have become so refined, so isolated, that although they haul ass, they don't necessarily provide visceral feedback or driving enjoyment. The Frisbee twins do--- as does the ND Miata.

Drive a nominal 100hp, 4,500lb 4Runner for a year and a Frisbee will feel like a rocket ship. To each his own.

I'll grant you that most cars, and trucks, have simply gotten soooo much faster. I have a difficult time in the BRZ keeping up with minivans and SUVs up to about 40. Heck, even my son's F150 will leave it for dead up to about 40 or so. Granted that's not everything, but there are times when you need to be able to run with traffic. I get in my wife's RAV4 and it "feels" faster too.

This is where I think the BRZ/FRS have a problem. We can rave all day about how good they handle, and how its nice to have a simple car, but the truth is, that if everyday Joe or Jane get in it and feel like they are driving a '64 Beetle, then they're moving on to something else. They can head off to the Ford dealer and get a Mustang that will smoke it in everyday use for about the same money. Or get a new ND that actually feels a bit faster.

You need more than a few diehards to keep sales up. You have to appeal to the average person. So what you ended up with is a rough riding, slow feeling car. And although it drives fantastic, the average person will never know the difference.

This sounds like I am being harsh on them, and maybe I am, but I love mine really. I wish it were more a combination between the 370 and BRZ though.

Jesus, were do you guys live? Are people taching up to 5 grand waiting to dump it at a green light? Or jockying for position on the highway with the hammer down? I can keep up, and slice and dice, in some of the nastiest traffic on earth (Chicago.) I have had only a few people pull on me from a light and the people who pass me in the interstate simply have bigger balls.

I dunno. Maybe I'm looking at it from the perspective of driving turds all my life until now. I'd probebly be just as happy with a new Mustang or 370Z.

I aways circle back to the BRZ as a potential purchase. It reminds me of my gen 1 rx7 or an old 240z. I like to drive a car with less nannies that gives you a more seat of pants drive.

The discussion in the office today was about cars under $30k. A coworker stated that there was nothing interesting in that range. I jumped directly to the BRZ. It is interesting. It is good looking. It is not uncomfortable, for a car of that size. The layout of the controls is clear and purposeful. It has a couple of bells and whistles but not so much that it is like a rolling ipad. It does not seem to have the issues with head gaskets that the WRX has. It seems like a good car for the money.

I sat in one of these and the new Miata at the latest new car show. The Miata was wierd. It seemed very tight and the hood seemed huge. It looks nicer than the last one but not as nice as a couple of generations ago. And not as comfortable.

It may also be interesting to see what the new Camaro with a turbo 4 and manual transmission does on a track. The ecoboost mustang is nice but it is a big car. It doesn't feel that big on the back roads but it still feels a little bigger than my gen 4 z28. The new camaro feels pretty small (just sitting in it). For under $30k it would be an interesting comparison to the BRZ. (The brz looks better though.)

My complaint with the BRZ is like a lot of other "sports car" drivers (and the same complaints I have about every non-boosted suby I've driven), which is that the low-end torque is quite functional, but not nearly as much fun. It just felt.... flat? Is that the right word? It wasn't engaging to play with the engine like my Mazdas or the Hondas I've driven.

Mitchell wrote:

wspohn wrote: Offering a version with, say, 275 bhp or so would boost visibility n the small sports car market segment.

Offering a version with 275 hp would likely require many driveline and structural enhancements, bumping the car into the $30k and 3200 lb mark. Still more expensive than the competition.

3200? From 2750? I doubt if the weight gain would really be 450 lbs. Probably more like 100 - 200, and worth every ounce. BRZ STi, anyone?

Or 50lbs.

The Edelbrock supercharger kit is CARB legal and they back it up with covering the drivetrain for the length of the factory warranty as long as it's installed by ASE certified shop.

255whp.

What they really needed is an Everyman version with the regular 2.0 out of the Impreza that could sell for under 20k.

I like them and Id love to have one, but Im quite sure Id get bored with it very vast, as much as I want to do HPDE, I dont, I go and watch my buddy do them. Man the vette barely keeps my attention, it feels pretty slow after driving it for just a few months. I feel ashamed for saying it but if it had 250 or 300 hp Id probably like it a lot more. MERICA!!!POWER!!!WHEELSPIN!!!!

z31maniac wrote: Or 50lbs. The Edelbrock supercharger kit is CARB legal and they back it up with covering the drivetrain for the length of the factory warranty as long as it's installed by ASE certified shop. 255whp.

Reeeeeeeeaaaly?

This is relevant to my interests.

The only thing that's keeping me out of one is lack of money. They have everything I'm looking for, just not monetarily feasible.

The most fun car I've ever owned only had 100hp. The reports of it lacking power doesn't really concern me.

I'm sort of interested in one of these, but I've been to two Scion dealers and two Subaru dealers this week and none of them have a single example on the lot.

Even worse if you want the 6 speed.

Woody wrote: I'm sort of interested in one of these, but I've been to two Scion dealers and two Subaru dealers this week and none of them have a single example on the lot.

Same here. The dealer that sold my wife her outback said he would have given me the last one he had for a song. It was 2 years old when he finally moved it.

People who want them buy them. People who don't know about them outnumber the people who know about them by about a billion to one.

Woody wrote: I'm sort of interested in one of these, but I've been to two Scion dealers and two Subaru dealers this week and none of them have a single example on the lot.

My sales person called to wish me happy one year anniversary for my BRZ. According to her they can't get any right now and do not have a time table as to when. Not sure what is going on with them.

Odd, I have no problem keeping up with traffic. Slower than molasses on the drag strip. so I don't go there. I have only 120 hp.

Robbie wrote: In reply to Joe Gearin: Let's compare the other way, not to change your point at all, but just for fun. 2016 honda pilot (4000 lb, 7 seat, 3500-5000lb towing, $31k, beastie): 0-60: 6.2, 1/4 mile, 14.8. http://www.caranddriver.com/honda/pilot

Until you come to that corner.

With premium gas and a modified intake (HKS snorkel + Perrin intake tube, Fram filter in stock airbox), I am fine with the power and responsiveness. Pilot Supersport tires are a handling revelation and really help put the power down too, especially out of corners. I have a 2014 FR-S and the stock suspension is really stiff, but I like that it never floats.
I test drove some used 2013's that must have been running 87 octane, since there was no top end rush.

I drove one. The engine felt rough or unwilling to me, it didn't feel like an engine that belongs in a sports car. It also felt flat and, yes I'm one that would like more power. I wanted to like it as I've owned a lot of Toyota sports cars in the past, but in its current iteration it's not a car I'd buy new (and I'm a guy that doesn't mind buying new).

Appleseed wrote: Jesus, were do you guys live? Are people taching up to 5 grand waiting to dump it at a green light? Or jockying for position on the highway with the hammer down?

Just because this seemed like a good place to say this:

Atlanta. Yes. Yes.

I'm seriously considering one of the twins for my next daily. Somewhat stupidly.

I'd have two carseats in back, commuting in a Michigan winter

Appleseed wrote:

z31maniac wrote: Or 50lbs. The Edelbrock supercharger kit is CARB legal and they back it up with covering the drivetrain for the length of the factory warranty as long as it's installed by ASE certified shop. 255whp.

Reeeeeeeeaaaly? This is relevant to my interests.

Yep, which means an exhaust and non-CARB tune once the warranty is up would likely get up in the 285whp range.

bastomatic wrote: I'm seriously considering one of the twins for my next daily. Somewhat stupidly. I'd have two carseats in back, commuting in a Michigan winter

I just bought one as a daily for Michigan. No car seats but you'll be happy to know the car seat mounting points are very clearly labeled

In reply to MrLittle:

Too bad you're not closer to me - I'd ask to test fit the seats I own. Guess I'll head to the Subie dealer. I'd absolutely be doing a subtle lift too - yours is exactly how I'd want it.

I'm not worried about fitting the kids or seats really, more worried about my back loading/unloading them.