In reply to bobzilla :
DC2 Integra is small by today's standards but still bigger than the Civic it was based upon.
In reply to bobzilla :
DC2 Integra is small by today's standards but still bigger than the Civic it was based upon.
GameboyRMH said:it's a bad time to be caught sleeping while Toyota/Subaru, Mazda, and Hyundai are all actually doing a good job of making relatively affordable low-end sports cars. Honda hasn't got out of the mid/late 00s rut like the others it seems.
Well now I'm confused. You say they're stuck in the early 2000s but everyone else in this thread seems to be upset that this isn't a carbon copy of the early 2000s integra...both can't be true.
I guess the question is "what could they have put up that stand that everyone here would have liked?" and I'm pretty sure the answer is either "nothing" or "something that only people on the forum would want and therefore would sell twelve total vehicles".
I just had a thought about the overall negative response to this car (this may have been said elsewhere in the thread).
Lots of people are mad, saying "ThAt'S nOt An InTeGrA!!!1!11!!". And Mr. Wallens touched upon this: Are people remembering the Integra in its original, stock form, or are they remembering the Integra as the modded street machines they once had? The Integra was a larger, more luxurious Civic available in a few different body styles, including a 3-door hatch, a 4-door sedan, and yes, a 5-door hatch at one point. When I was a kid, they reminded me of a Japanese Saab 900. I grew up in an affluent town, and we had a Saab dealer and an Acura dealer on the other end of town. Once the Integra came out in '87, as a car-obsessed kid, I started seeing less Saab 900's and more Integras. They seemingly replaced the 900 as the "sensible choice" for a an adult semi-luxury sporty daily driver in my town. In my area at least, no one was tuning them until way into the late 90's, when some of the later cars like the higher performance GSR fell into affordable used car territory. The Type R was the exception, of course. That thing has always been nuts.
The car that Acura just trotted out is basically what it originally intended to be, but modernized. It's not supposed to be the slammed "tuner car" many envisioned in their heads; it's supposed to be a near-luxury car with some sport sprinkled into its DNA. Think about it as a competitor to what Saab would have as the 9-3 if they were still around. I'm not sure there's much of a market for that these days, but it is what it is. As for myself, I need to see one in person to make a final judgement. The yellow color and those side graphics are not doing it any favors on the computer screen.
I do appreciate the perspective that some of you are offering... that a MT sporty hatchback costing about 30k is a rare thing anymore. It's not trivial.
And given Honda's overwrought, awful styling of late, this thing doesn't look too shabby, even if it does look like Cross tour.
I don't hate it, it just feels a bit gimmicky to call it an Integra. Not because it's not exactly what an Integra used to be (I agree with Tony that it is), it's just feels like they brought the name back to try to get a certain type of buyer interested in the brand that is mostly a snoozer. But can I blame them? And one more thing: Where are the wishboooooooones?! I keed.
CyberEric said:I do appreciate the perspective that some of you are offering... that a MT sporty hatchback costing about 30k is a rare thing anymore. It's not trivial.
And given Honda's overwrought, awful styling of late, this thing doesn't look too shabby, even if it does look like Cross tour.
I don't hate it, it just feels a bit gimmicky to call it an Integra. Where are the wishboooooooones?!
I was a little surprised it isn't double wishbone. (even then, the original integra had roughly the same suspension as the civics of the time, they just happened to all be double wishbone at that point) But on the other hand, acura going back to double wishbone just for brand differentiation was a dumb move too. A bunch of extra cost and development work for exactly zero performance difference for the vehicles' intended purposes. Only functional improvement is that the SUVs are starting to get heavy enough that struts just aren't strong enough. IIRC some other acuras are switching back to struts in the coming years as well.
In reply to Tony Sestito :
Perhaps the engineers and designers had what you wrote in mind, but the marketing department went for that 90s tuner crowd, especially with this really cringey video.
CyberEric said:given Honda's overwrought, awful styling of late, this thing doesn't look too shabby, even if it does look like Cross tour.
I think that you're at least a year behind on that. The new Civic eschews the Transformer-tech look of the last generation for a relatively conservative look. If anything, the Integra could use more distinctiveness, not less.
In reply to j_tso :
As someone who is actually, legitimately interested in the new Integra as a daily driver, that video left me with some emotions that I don't think Acura was probably going for.
This might be a little biased because I have a Type-R; but, two too many doors... Even though the original Integras came in 4-door versions, it's the 2-door versions that created the Integra legacy. And since Honda/Acura are relying on that legacy, they should've come out with a 2-door version first. That's hoping there will be 2-door version eventually.
It's not bad if you called it a new ILX/TSX but my mind can't quite connect it to being an Integra. Can't really complain about having another sporty small car with a manual.
msterbeau said:Can't really complain about having another sporty small car with a manual.
Apparently we can 
If it is the same size as a Civic, I would not classify it as small. I work with someone who has an '18 Civic (with the 1.5) and my midsize Volvo, while not dwarfed by it, is lower and seems to be a bit shorter. It's still encouraging that it isn't, say, an Acura version of the HR-V, like Mitsubishi might have done, mind you.
In reply to j_tso :
That's the first video on YouTube that I've ever seen with more thumbs down reacts to thumbs up. It's nice to know that Scion's marketing team managed to find work after Toyota shuttered the brand.
I wonder if they released photos in other colors with no 1980's stickers it would have landed better. Yellow cars are for magazine covers, Acura is supposed to be appealing to the more grown up crowd. Show me gunmetal or deep red. I suspect this car will be a fantastic ride.
In reply to GTwannaB :
Right there with you. I want to see one in dark blue or dark green metallic with no dumb stickers. I have a feeling it'll look a thousand times better.
dps214 said:I guess the question is "what could they have put up that stand that everyone here would have liked?" and I'm pretty sure the answer is either "nothing" or "something that only people on the forum would want and therefore would sell twelve total vehicles".
I'm on the this car hits it's mark camp and I say this as an ex DC2 owner and a 1st gen 6-speed TSX owner.
I actually don't think the target demographic is us or the hardcore honda fans. It's supposed to appeal to a new generation of honda enthusiasts and serve as a feeder car to the brand. It's practical with a hint of sport and hopefully upmarket enough to capture those that are allergic to german engineering. For the less hardcore enthusiasts it'll be a nicer civic si, with hopefully lower insurance, and less boy racer baggage.
The population that grew up with old hondas are supposed to have enough money and changes in their priorities to get a TLX. It's got double wishbones sh-awd and the v6 a lot of people like. Or get an ND2
But! To answer your question how to make everyone happy. Keep the LSD and 6-speed Retrofit double wishbones into the civic chassis like toyota did with the superstrut for the celica. Reuse the k24w out of the 9th gen accord, tune for 91, hotter vtec cam and maybe a 2 stage manifold for ~220hp? I think it'd be easier to convince mazda to make a stripped down version of the mazda3 and stuff the miata engine in it.
msterbeau said:Can't really complain about having another sporty small car with a manual.
Right. I mean currently it isn't like the market is overloaded with them if you need room for more then just two up front. There is the GTi, Civic Si/Type R, WRX, Mini Cooper S, Elantra N, Mazda 3. That is about all I can think of and at least the Elantra, Civic and WRX are even uglier then the Integra.
dps214 said:GameboyRMH said:it's a bad time to be caught sleeping while Toyota/Subaru, Mazda, and Hyundai are all actually doing a good job of making relatively affordable low-end sports cars. Honda hasn't got out of the mid/late 00s rut like the others it seems.
Well now I'm confused. You say they're stuck in the early 2000s but everyone else in this thread seems to be upset that this isn't a carbon copy of the early 2000s integra...both can't be true.
I guess the question is "what could they have put up that stand that everyone here would have liked?" and I'm pretty sure the answer is either "nothing" or "something that only people on the forum would want and therefore would sell twelve total vehicles".
So truth. Much accurate. Wow.
In reply to Tony Sestito :
I'm reminded of when Dodge reintroduced the Charger. There was so much weeping and gnashing of teeth, and it at least had never been a 4-door before.
And damned if it didn't sell about 8 million copies as everything from a stripper V6 civil service appliance to a 700 hp widebody tire burner, and looked decent doing it.
Honda needs a whole new design department.
rathonda said:Even though the original Integras came in 4-door versions, it's the 2-door versions that created the Integra legacy.
Among enthusiasts. The four door models sold pretty well among people who were buying cars new, and that's Honda's main business.
Four doors in a car with a back seat makes more sense, and the whole "four door cars don't handle as well" or "four door cars don't look good" or whatever it was that made two door cars the sporty version back in the long ago times doesn't really hold up well in my opinion.
lnlds said:But! To answer your question how to make everyone happy... Reuse the k24w out of the 9th gen accord, tune for 91, hotter vtec cam and maybe a 2 stage manifold for ~220hp?
This is a hilariously absurd expectation
As a Honda/Acura fan I really want to like it, but without the 2.0T with a 6MT or 10 spd auto I just don't find this to be more appealing than a 2.0T Accord.
If I'm in the market for a new Honda/Acura car I'm starting at the Civic Si or Type R if it's just for me with occasional use of the back seat, Accord if I want to frequently move other people around, then the TLX if I want a nicer Accord. This Integra doesn't do anything for me.
To me, the current Civic looks a lot better in person than in it does in photos. I am curious if the new Integra follow suit. Hoping so, as it is on my potential future purchase list, despite that aforementioned craptastic video that Acura released about this car.
I don't care that it is soft or huge but when you couple the manual transmission with it, I think it's going to be a flop. It has strong 2014 Maxima styling vibes to me which isn't great but isn't horrible. It's as memorable as a 2014 Maxima. None of those buyers would want a manual.
Catering to the "grown up enthusiast" crowd I think they could have done better with a little less bloat, a little more style, automatic only for the big soft 4 door to sell units and a 2 door type R manual transmission version with a CTR drivetrain. Could you imagine the hype with champ white, red valve cover, red recaro, 6 speed 2 door ITR with all the Easter eggs? They would sell a ton at $50k a pop.
those that said said this is more ILX/tsx I think are on the money but Acura is so boring now that they wanted to release an successor to those cars but have some new nostalgic hype like the Z and Supra generated. Slap Integra on it and see what happens. It could be better but it doesn't have a 2010 era Chrome beak so let's be happy about that.
A smaller 4 door car is hard for a 6'2" 61 year old 275 pound guy to get in and out of the drivers seat. Plus, the seat belts are mounted parallel with my shoulder, not good. 2 door is a real improvement, and I very seldom carry spare people in my car.
I'd probably have been fine with the Integra if they hadn't followed fashion and gone to alpha numeric names, which are universally stupid. If this was just the next Integra in a line that had grown over the last 20 years, it wouldn't contrast so badly with the 98 style that I enjoy so much.
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