Anybody @ Sebring and see the SpecMiata start?

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

Here's what I don't understand about the driver of the 46. One of the best and most enjoyable parts of club racing is in the paddock after the race is over and in the evening after is talking to your counterparts about the battles that you had on track that day. Rehashing them and the camaraderie and respect that's formed. 

When you engage in the asshattery that he took upon himself, you miss out on that. It is not part of your experience and it's one of the best parts about wheel-to-wheel racing. I would feel sorry for the guy if he weren't a danger to the health and safety of those who he shares the track with, both racers, volunteers and safety personnel. People like that are a threat to the sport. From a legality standpoint from an insurance standpoint and from the standpoint of people seeing that footage and thinking to themselves this is why I don't want to race wheel to wheel. 

It is toxic behavior and it cannot be stood for or defended. 

Prove a pattern of the SCCA failing to enforce there own rules on multiple occasions and a very compelling argument can be made that the SCCA is liable for damages and or anyone that gets hurt.  The SCCA should think long and hard about this.  Yes you wave all rights when you sign up for an event but I don't think it waves the SCCA of there responsibilities of rule enforcement.  If you got hurt and it was the result of another drivers actions that had a documented history of doing things that were not acted on by the SCCA I think this could end badly for the SCCA 

We ran with Spec Miata in a couple endurance races and a very large part of the spec Miata class acted like no one else had the right to be on the track except Spec Miata.  Finally a couple of the drivers in my team had enough and just decided to hold there line. Yes I got called to the officials tent but the corner workers backed up my drivers saying that they were holding there line.

Any race that had Spec Miata as part of the field made the event much less fun for everyone else on track.  

I'm not one to normally condone vandalism, but how did #46's tow vehicle not have slashed tires by the end of the weekend?

Keith 

Do that a couple of times and people will start to figure it out.

I used to run a university marching band. Before I took over, the band would announce what time you had to be on the bus to leave for a game - but it ws padded by 30 minutes to make sure everyone showed up on time. Everyone knew that, so they'd show up 30 minutes late. Then it was padded by 45. Then it was an hour. The bus would always wait for stragglers.

When I took over, I announced what time the bus was going to leave, and it left at that time. I only had to leave band members behind once before they figured it out and we never had to wait again. There have to be consequences to ignoring the rules. Make it clear that there are going to be consequences and people will start to pay attention to them.

I had to laugh at this one. I've lived it, too. I was a plant manager and I would take the staff on outings occasionally. Previous practice had always been golf, but I had a couple of non-golfers ,so we went on a fishing charter. You could set your watch by my Comptroller's arrival at work every day at 8:10. Before the fishing trip I told him three times that the bus was leaving at 8:00 AM "promptly". The third time he became agitated and told me to stop treating him like a kid. At 8:00 AM the next morning I told the bus driver to leave.Other staff told me the Comptroller wasn't there yet....."yes, I know" and off we go. At the dock his wife shows up driving him to catch up with us and I apologize for roping her into it. She just looks at me, smiles and says "We've been  married XX years and I KNOW why you did it. Good luck." He continued coming to work at 8:10 but never missed the bus again.

The driver of the 46 miata is from new York.  His name closely resembles Charlie junger.  This was pointed out on Facebook by looking at the entries for this race.  He has Been racing since 2016 in SM at least.

It's clearly Charles Junger, who has been racing as 46 for years. According to this list, he's sponsored by Auto Technik.

Want to reward this guy for his driving? Call them up and let them know that you won't be doing business with them because their driver is a menace.

Here they are.  And as noted, they build a pretty strong car ;)

https://www.autotechnikracing.com

Keith Tanner said:

It's clearly Charles Junger, who has been racing as 46 for years. According to this list, he's sponsored by Auto Technik.

Want to reward this guy for his driving? Call them up and let them know that you won't be doing business with them because their driver is a menace.

I would do that, except I can't find an auto technik that is in the USA.  Especially one in N.Y..

Am I missing something?

Edit:  good find.  Thanks!

Yeah, it wasn't easy. It seems to mean something like "garage" in German :) Found it with an image search that had Spec Miatas in it combined with a shot of Charles' car that confirmed the logo.

Keith Tanner said:

Yeah, it wasn't easy. It seems to mean something like "garage" in German :) 

Yeah, it's the fancy word for "Autowerkstatt" - ie, garage/workshop, when the latter isn't posh enough.

Keith Tanner said:

Here they are.  And as noted, they build a pretty strong car ;)

https://www.autotechnikracing.com

I think it would be a service to the company if someone by the name of Jon Doe contacted them and at least made them aware of this thread and the publicity it is generating them.  https://www.autotechnikracing.com/contacts/

I wonder if sponsors that are in the SM world started to crack down on drivers and teams if it would cause change in SM?  If the sponsor said to stop driving like a "Richard" or we pull our $$$ from you.  And then backing it up by doing it.  If an example was made it would at least send a message that I bet other SM teams would take note of.  

I think if you get a group of people to contact them everyday once for the number of times that he contacted other cars on course during said race, That it would grow very old very quickly.

I'm also surprised that the field racing against him doesn't band together to protest him every race. If they all chip in it would be less than $100 a piece to have his head pulled and then for him to have to have it reinstalled after every race. Same goes for the rear end. 

I would encourage everybody to reach out to the shop that sponsors him and inform them that they're going to contact them everyday once for each car he contacted And that if they drop support of him, That effectively they'll provide the funds for them to turn labor on his vehicle via protest being posted, as long as they put him to the back of the line. If he misses a few green flags due to reassembly not being completed, nothing of value will have been lost. 

In short if a sanctioning body won't take the measures to remove a dangerous racer from their ranks, oh well organized field of competitors who wishes to do so certainly can, without punting him. 

It amuses me that on their website they have a link for "Driver Development" under the services they offer. 

Or maybe it scares me a little.

wae said:

It amuses me that on their website they have a link for "Driver Development" under the services they offer. 

 

Or maybe it scares me a little.

That is funny.!!!

The blue car looks kind of familiar to me.  Was there a thread on here about the incident that wrecked it?

Yeah, I don't think I'd be pestering some company for sponsoring an amateur driver you saw involved in a couple of wrecks on youtube, especially without more context and first hand experience. 

The first wreck and the last involving that driver were pretty much the same but with the roles reversed, one car up the inside into a gap that wasn't there (actually in the second where 46 was receiving it looked like he left room for the car up the inside but that guy overcooked it). The wreck on the straight was just dumb and both parties have some blame there but more so on 46 as there was still a few feet of track out to the wall, the other guy shouldn't have kept pushing over either though.

Now if I were a participant at the track or in general racing with the SCCA I think it would be very appropriate to be on their case (SCCA) about why the standard of racing is so low with this group/this event. Even if that isn't your run group it leaves a stain on the event overall and throws off the schedule for everyone else while they clean up the mess. Watching that video is embarrassing, I see more respect and better race craft going to our local dirt track for a Friday night of racing. 

First and foremost I'm not on board with harassing the sponsor and frankly I'm surprised it was suggested here. 

The  SCCA is set up is for competitors to protest ( I don't particualrly agree with it). This goes back to what I said earlier in the thread. The SM community needs to look themselves in the eye. If  the drivers said something then it would stop. 

adam525i (Forum Supporter) said:

The first wreck and the last involving that driver were pretty much the same but with the roles reversed, one car up the inside into a gap that wasn't there (actually in the second where 46 was receiving it looked like he left room for the car up the inside but that guy overcooked it). The wreck on the straight was just dumb and both parties have some blame there but more so on 46 as there was still a few feet of track out to the wall, the other guy shouldn't have kept pushing over either though.

There's always some shared responsibility in an accident, but when you're involved in 4 in a single race, there's a pattern of behavior to be seen. 

There's an old saying, "If one man calls you a jackass, laugh in his face.  If a second calls you a jackass, start to wonder.  If a third calls you a jackass, start looking for work as a pack mule."

Tom1200 said:

First and foremost I'm not on board with harassing the sponsor and frankly I'm surprised it was suggested here. 

The  SCCA is set up is for competitors to protest ( I don't particualrly agree with it). This goes back to what I said earlier in the thread. The SM community needs to look themselves in the eye. If  the drivers said something then it would stop. 

If that were my company's name on the side of that car, I'd certainly want to know about his behavior. I would be evaluating how valuable that association was. I didn't suggest harassing but I did suggest letting them know that this driver's behavior is reflecting poorly on them.

The SCCA obviously doesn't care if the chief steward is bragging about how he won't throw black flags for multiple wrecks and praising the quality of the racing. Saying something won't help, this is now core behavior in the class. If you want to have an effect, you follow the money.

In reply to adam525i (Forum Supporter) :

If that same company had a delivery driver who was a private contractor 1099 driving a van with their logo on the side while intoxicated, endangering others. Would you contact them? 

When you sponsor someone they agree to represent you, your brand and your company. You're not sponsoring them to win races. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Correct you never suggest it but others did.

Also note I mentioned I don't particularly like the way SCCA relies on competors to police themselves. 

Many years ago a friend ran a big SM support race (I think it was an Indy car race at Laguna Seca) the steward sat the entire SM group down (73 cars) and let them know if there were any nonsense he'd  black flag the whole group. There were no issues.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to adam525i (Forum Supporter) :

If that same company had a delivery driver who was a private contractor 1099 driving a van with their logo on the side while intoxicated, endangering others. Would you contact them? 

 

When you sponsor someone they agree to represent you, your brand and your company. You're not sponsoring them to win races. 

It would depend on how the conversation went with the police first, I'd probably let them deal with it though. Not sure what criminal activity on public roads has to do with a sanctioned and stewarded racing event on a private race track.

When they are on a racetrack 2,269 km away from me and I've seen a youtube clip posted on the internet I think I'll leave it to someone that was actually there and/or is impacted (sometimes literally) by their actions (that could be another SCCA member on the other side of the country). I'd still be going to the organizing body first over an individual sponsor of a driver to voice my concerns, based on the nickname for the series the problems go a lot deeper than the 46 car.

The funny thing here is none of us had heard of Auto Technik Racing until this thread and the actions of their driver, it got me onto their website and like Keith said, they build a strong race car. Seems like they're getting decent return on this sponsorship, especially if they're getting paid to straighten out some of these race cars at the end of the day 

In reply to adam525i (Forum Supporter) :

Exposure for a sponsor or anyone affiliated doesn't necessarily mean that it is positive and certainly doesn't mean that it's going to increase business. 

When home slice dropped Henry Ford the third's name about a half dozen time Nobody I know went out and purchased Fords. in fact it was roughly around the same time afterwards that Ford announced that they're going to stop making cars other than the Mustang. 

And that's before we even get into the target market based off of scope and range of services provided and products sold. (I know that your response with meant kind of tongue and cheek, but I take elements regarding sponsorship very seriously as I've been on the side of a marketing department that issued sponsorships, on the sanctioning body side responsible for sponsorship deliverables, and as a driver. It is something that most competitors do not grasp or understand throughout every level.) 

Tom1200 said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Correct you never suggest it but others did.

Also note I mentioned I don't particularly like the way SCCA relies on competors to police themselves. 

Many years ago a friend ran a big SM support race (I think it was an Indy car race at Laguna Seca) the steward sat the entire SM group down (73 cars) and let them know if there were any nonsense he'd  black flag the whole group. There were no issues.

I know in solo protesters can quickly be seen as dicks just for protesting. It can be a quick way to make enemies.

Apexcarver said:

Tom1200 said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Correct you never suggest it but others did.

Also note I mentioned I don't particularly like the way SCCA relies on competors to police themselves. 

Many years ago a friend ran a big SM support race (I think it was an Indy car race at Laguna Seca) the steward sat the entire SM group down (73 cars) and let them know if there were any nonsense he'd  black flag the whole group. There were no issues.

I know in solo protesters can quickly be seen as dicks just for protesting. It can be a quick way to make enemies.

On the car prep side I get why the SCCA puts the burden on competitors but when it comes to driving standards or in this case the lack of them I'd prefer the stewards stepped in. Currently it doesn't work that way. 

As for being seen as the bad guy when protesting; my attitude is protest my car all you want, I run class legal cars.

In the Facebook conversation I saw people referencing the similar situation at the RunOffs. Spec classes typically tend to have some pushing and shoving but SM has crossed the line quite awhile ago. Somebody needs to step in whether it's the front office or the front runners.

Reading on another forum that Mr. Junger has been protested to National by multiple drivers and video evidence has been sent in. He's not a very popular fellow with a few names I recognize from the SpecMiata racing on the Runoffs telecasts. The "Spec Miata Man Drama" Facebook page is having a field day with him.