Are first-generation Miatas really vintage race cars?

Tyler H wrote: Vintage racing is a lot like the "Classic Rock" format on the radio: they've been playing the same loop of Zeppelin, Allman Brothers, ZZ Top, and 38 Special for the last 30 years. Now it's time to start mixing in Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Green Day. The MGs and Spitfires need to move over for Miatas, CRXs, and E30s, for they are vintage and they are good. It's never been a better time to be into vintage cars. Parts are still available, the Internet knows all, and they don't rust anymore.

The classic rock stations around here are just starting to input stuff from the 80's into their playlists. They wont touch anything 1990 or newer.

92dxman wrote:

Tyler H wrote: Vintage racing is a lot like the "Classic Rock" format on the radio: they've been playing the same loop of Zeppelin, Allman Brothers, ZZ Top, and 38 Special for the last 30 years. Now it's time to start mixing in Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Green Day. The MGs and Spitfires need to move over for Miatas, CRXs, and E30s, for they are vintage and they are good. It's never been a better time to be into vintage cars. Parts are still available, the Internet knows all, and they don't rust anymore.

The classic rock stations around here are just starting to input stuff from the 80's into their playlists. They wont touch anything 1990 or newer.

And, when you think about it, the genre label "Oldies" is older than the Oldies were when they started being called Oldies. That's why the classic rock station sticks to the same tired schtick. Because how can you call it "Classic Rock" when it's clearly "New Wave", "Post Modern", "Grunge", etc.?

KyAllroad wrote:

BlueInGreen44 wrote: Miatas are just so good that we can still compare them to modern cars.

This. After lapping with Caymens, M3s, C-6 Vettes and the like it'd feel like an unfair advantage to run a Miata against a Triumph or MG. I think that might be what the old school guys are worried about. Obselecense.

That made me giggle - obsolete cars making obsolete racers feel bad about their more obsolete cars.

A few I've run across are trying to recreate or capture a nostalgic bit of time that probably never actually existed. Personally, I just like the aesthetics of the old stuff and I don't have the depth of pockets to be competitive with new gear. With vintage there's the illusion of not having to deal with an arms race with equipment and talent. Would probably be as well off in a spec series

It would feel weird having my AW11 MR2 in classic car races and its 3 years older than the oldest Miata.

In reply to Maniac0301: I'm loving the bottlecaps and the red mudflaps. Gives it a hint of those Spec B MR2s.

For those who have been vintage racing for some time- does anyone remember WHEN the 1973 cut off was decided upon?

I seem to remember seeing "later" trans am cars in books when I was starting working. Which would have made the '73 cars 20 years old at the time.

Not sure when that artificial date was set for most of the sanctioning bodies. I wonder if it was related to some of the tech that came in the '74-75 time frame.... (safety and emissions stuff).

oldtin wrote:

KyAllroad wrote:

BlueInGreen44 wrote: Miatas are just so good that we can still compare them to modern cars.

This. After lapping with Caymens, M3s, C-6 Vettes and the like it'd feel like an unfair advantage to run a Miata against a Triumph or MG. I think that might be what the old school guys are worried about. Obselecense.

That made me giggle - obsolete cars making obsolete racers feel bad about their more obsolete cars. A few I've run across are trying to recreate or capture a nostalgic bit of time that probably never actually existed. Personally, I just like the aesthetics of the old stuff and I don't have the depth of pockets to be competitive with new gear. With vintage there's the illusion of not having to deal with an arms race with equipment and talent. Would probably be as well off in a spec series

I've seen some damn fast vintage cars, and I expect that they've got a lot of cubic dollars and/or hours dedicated to them to where the idea that they'd be cheap to run doesn't sound very realistic. No racing is cheap, but vintage and spec Miata are relatively cheap - to race. Winning is another thing altogether.

In reply to thatsnowinnebago:

Thank you as this is a rallycross car I'm going for a '80s Toyota rally vibe. It helps that bottle caps and Ikea cutting boards are really cheap to buy as well. I've been entertaining the idea of doing a paint scheme like this Celica I'm just not really sure of my ability to pull it off.

So, can we start calling a first gen Miata... a Model A???

At some point, all of us are going to have to realize that we are becoming vintage racing drivers, too. Or at least vintage drivers.

My old Alfas easily fit on any vintage racing weekend, and I'm older than both.

Kreb wrote:

oldtin wrote:

KyAllroad wrote:

BlueInGreen44 wrote: Miatas are just so good that we can still compare them to modern cars.

This. After lapping with Caymens, M3s, C-6 Vettes and the like it'd feel like an unfair advantage to run a Miata against a Triumph or MG. I think that might be what the old school guys are worried about. Obselecense.

That made me giggle - obsolete cars making obsolete racers feel bad about their more obsolete cars. A few I've run across are trying to recreate or capture a nostalgic bit of time that probably never actually existed. Personally, I just like the aesthetics of the old stuff and I don't have the depth of pockets to be competitive with new gear. With vintage there's the illusion of not having to deal with an arms race with equipment and talent. Would probably be as well off in a spec series

I've seen some damn fast vintage cars, and I expect that they've got a lot of cubic dollars and/or hours dedicated to them to where the idea that they'd be cheap to run doesn't sound very realistic. No racing is cheap, but vintage and spec Miata are relatively cheap - to race. Winning is another thing altogether.

There's a story that Peter Egan tells of the vintage Formula Ford his friend bought. When they decided to rebuild the motor, they wanted a little bit hotter cam than what was really legal for a vintage FF. Egan called a well know cam manufacturer, looking to get a custom grind. The manufacturer told him, "Oh, you want our FF cheater cam, part # whatever. All the front-runners in vintage FF run it!"

When I went to my first vintage race weekend circa 1990 the cut-off was 1968, shortly thereafter it went to 1972.

When I friend bought the Datsun 1200 in 84 it was just an old car, same when we started racing it in SCCA in 89 (ironically the same year the Maita came out) now it's a vintage race car and I still have difficulty with it being vintage.

As for the Miata at vintage I think it's very appropriate, if I still had my 1990 Showroom Stock I'd love to run it in Showroom Stock trim as it finished top 5 at the runoffs a couple of years running.

I race with VARA and they have been accepting up to the early eighties for a few years. They also have a catch all class and we've had a few Miatas race with us.

As for the lap times: my lap times in the 1200 were slightly faster than Spec Miata winner when NASA ran a regional at my local track but these were not anywhere near Run-offs level. I have a friend who turns lap times about a second a lap faster than the B-sedan front runner with a Miata (the car is in between Spec and Super Miata). It's inevitable that CRX, MR2 and Miatas are coming to vintage just as our Datsuns took over from the British cars. Note the British cars are still out there in big numbers.

Now as for Formula Fords there are a lot groups that have since cracked down on the nonsense that was going on. At one point the Vintage Fords were turning faster lap times at Willow Springs than the moderns. It's pretty easy to check for cheater cams, pop the oil cap off and you can see enough as well as take a basic measurement. You can measure the bore easily as well. There is also "gee so you think you can tell us why you are running a main jet three sizes bigger than second place?"

Formula Vee is under the same scrutiny now as well.

The other factor is the driver; I typically finish 5th overall mainly because I'm dragging the car forward. If some of the faster cars had drivers with a bit more skill / talent I wouldn't have a prayer.

After 26 years I've got 9k in the car (that includes every part I've ever bought for it).another 2k would make it a front runner and 3K would make it a pole sitter for every race. So for club level vintage racing you do not have to have a no dollar spared car.

The question for Vintage Miatas is going to be what class; Showroom Stock, ITA or E-Production?

Tom