Assume financial chaos...

My brother and I were emailing today and speculating on the future of the US car industry. He found a reference detailing the make/model of the top 20 selling cars in the US. The Big Three top selling "cars" were trucks--F150, Silverado and Ram. Some Fords (i.e. Focus) were way below.

My assumption is that gas prices are going to do nothing but climb and money is going to be very tight in the near future. I think the market is going to shift heavily into utilitarian mode and sales of roughly 50% of US car production (those three trucks) are going to drop big-time... I opined that if somebody made an up-to-date version of a late-70's Rabbit or Civic with a focus on economy (minimum weight, maximum reliability and fuel mileage) they'd sell a ton of them. My brother responded that the Indians and Chinese will probably nail that market segment. So here's my question to you all--

Assuming you don't want to buy some brand spanking new piece-'o-crap from Asia and you wanted to go low-bucks and get the original version of my concept like an early generation Rabbit/Civic (or something else) emphasizing minimum weight, maximum reliability and fuel mileage:

A. What are your candidates? B. How much do you think you'd need to spend to get a decent rust-free example?

A.) Miata.

B.) $100.00. Already did it.

Ford Festiva or Geo Metro- no more than $500. Fieros are also pretty miserly if you get a good running 4 cylinder/4 speed example. my $400 4 cylinder/5 speed '97 Cavalier gets 38mpg.

and all the predictions in this thread have been thrown around for about 10 years now- and especially for the last 5 years or so since gas prices became so volatile- and yet people are still buying trucks.

A.) Miata

B.) I got a Duster for $50, it gets 35+ MPG and runs on piss and vinegar. I'm set. Screw new cars.

A.) VW A2 Golf/Jetta. May not handle like a Miata, but holds a lot more stuff.

I'm getting 28mpg in mixed driving with my 8v. IIRC, the 16v doesn't get much worse, and there are also diesel and turbodiesel versions that can get dang near 60 with a few tweaks. The diesels are also popular with the biodiesel crowd, almost as much as the Merc 123 chassis cars.

B.) Bought mine new, never let it go-and never will. If you want mine, you'll have to come to the estate sale. Rust-free Southern car, except for the battery box..and possibly the passenger side floor, if I can't seal the %^&%^& sunroof leak..(yes, the drains are clear).

It's getting hard to find cheap ones without rust, tho..seems that most of the folks that bought them new were Northeast "libruls" (rusty!), and the VW enthusiast community is ga-ga over them. When a clean one shows up, people throw money at them. You can still find a few "grandma" Jettas on Craigslist for less than $1K, but if you want one, find it now.

A. 89 Honda CRX HF 41 city/50 hwy

B. $1000 or so I think could buy you a nice rust free car

96 civic hatch, 63kmiles at purchase 36mpg city... 46mpg highway.... Airbags and A/C.. w000

2300

seriously, hatchbacks rule.

ignorant wrote: seriously, hatchbacks rule.

Totally agree, even taking it a step further: early '90s Accord wagon. Really clean and simple looking, maybe even handsome. I saw a black one recently, lowered, nice wheels, nice stance.

Just because I need a hauler.

I wouldn't worry about it. Between the deal BP got for sending the nice man home to Quadaffi and Lotsa oil in the Gulf of Mexico We should be awash in cheap gas in no time.

Sept. 2 (Bloomberg) -- BP Plc, Europe’s second-largest oil company, reported a “giant” discovery at the Tiber Prospect in the U.S. Gulf of Mexico that may contain more than 3 billion barrels, after drilling the world’s deepest exploration well.

The well is located about 250 miles (400 kilometers) southeast of Houston, the London-based company said today in a statement. It was drilled to approximately 35,055 feet (10,685 meters), greater than the height of Mount Everest.

The latest discovery will help BP, already the biggest producer in the Gulf of Mexico, boost output in the region by 50 percent to 600,000 barrels of oil equivalent a day after 2020. It’s equal to about a year’s output from Saudi Arabia, the biggest exporter in the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, as well as coming close to matching the U.K.’s entire proven reserves.

“It will take a while to develop, the second half of next decade, but it’s very important,” Jonathan Rigby, an analyst at UBS AG in London, said in a telephone interview.

BP climbed 22.15 pence, or 4.3 percent, to 541.65 pence in London, the highest close since January. BP has gained 3 percent since the start of this year.

BP, led by Chief Executive Officer Tony Hayward, is developing nine projects in the Gulf of Mexico and overtook Royal Dutch Shell Plc in terms of output in the region after ramping up the Thunder Horse platform to more than 300,000 barrels of oil equivalent a day.

Thunder Horse

Hayward, who took over as CEO from John Browne in May 2007, is boosting production growth after delays at projects including Thunder Horse led to an operational gap with rivals. BP has a history of pushing back the frontiers of exploration in North America, and pioneered enhanced oil recovery techniques in Alaska.

Not cheap gas, but plentiful expensive gas. Another article I read mentioned that costs of extraction will be such that it's only profitable to do so when oil is over $70 a barrel. So there's plenty to sell as long as people will pay.

Meh, we already have an E85 station in town. Then I can turbo all of our cars and run on corn juice.

And yes, hatchbacks RULE! I swear I've hauled more stuff in my RX-7 than 90% of my neighbors in their F750 QuadCab Dually Diesel 4x4' Monster Trucks. In fact, I took a 7' tree to work in it last week.

The Duster looks to be even more useful as the rear seats fold flat and the roof is higher. There looks to be a LOT of usable space in there!

A) My DD 1990 Saab 900S or my 1969 Saab 96. ~32MPG commuting in the 900S. 28-30 in the 96 when it is running well.

B) Free.99 for the 900S. ~$2.5k so far and a ton of time in the 96.

I still really want an earlier Metro or, preferably, a Festiva.

Err guys, gas (sorry petrol) was over $5 a gallon in 1994 in England when I moved here. I'm not sure what it is today, but last summer when I picked up my Volvo it was $10 - 11 a gallon. Yes there are more fuel efficient cars over there and over 50% diesel, but there are still lot's of performance cars as well. The difference is in Europe gas has always been expensive so people, the economy, shipping, transportation etc has evolved over the last 60 years with that being the norm. Everything went to hell last year when gas was hitting $4/gal here, but that price will be back (and higher). Assuming it happens more gradually next time the public will have time to adjust, so will prices of things dependant on gas and the pain will feel less. The automakers will have time to get new products to the market to suit. Look, the Transit connect is here, the new Fiesta is coming, EcoBoost engines, hybrids etc etc. The automakers have already reacted to higher prices and the products will be there when the higher prices arrive.

Well, obviously, a Tercel. When the Stealthtercel was new, we repeatedly put a baby (+ carseat), a kid, two adults, a collapsible crib, a couple of cubic yards of Baby Stuff, toys, many stuffed animals, and luggage for a week into it. That car went 250,000 km before sitting for a couple of years, and all it ever wanted was a water pump and a set of tires. (I'm not saying that's all it NEEDED, mind you: the 3EE engine eventually ate its valve guides the way they all do, which is why it has a 5EFE now.)

$1000 today would probably get you two good Tercels in Toronto.

There are no Asian pieces of crap today. Have you seen the new Kia Forte? Have you driven a modern Hyundai? What about the Toyota iQ? Excellent design, excellent packaging, really smart engineering. If gas goes up and money goes down, I want one of those.

But if I have to get something domestic, cheap and frugal, that's tougher. I mean, do you want to drive an Oldsmobile Diesel sedan from the 80's? Me neither. My first impulse would be the Chevy Sprint Turbo. Not sure how much domestic content it really has, but it has sporting intentions and with 3 cylinders it has to be decent on gas.

pinchvalve wrote: There are no Asian pieces of crap today. Have you seen the new Kia Forte? Have you driven a modern Hyundai? What about the Toyota iQ? Excellent design, excellent packaging, really smart engineering. If gas goes up and money goes down, I want one of those. But if I have to get something domestic, cheap and frugal, that's tougher. I mean, do you want to drive an Oldsmobile Diesel sedan from the 80's? Me neither. My first impulse would be the Chevy Sprint Turbo. Not sure how much domestic content it really has, but it has sporting intentions and with 3 cylinders it has to be decent on gas.

Well, the 2nd gen models were built in Canada by Suzuki/GM at the CAMI plant (dunno about the 1st gens, suprf1y will chime in I am sure). I can get over 500kms on the highway (30 litres) in my Swift GTi with a standalone, tuned so it will gas you at idle because of the "massive" cams in it. I did 600kms once on a completely stock Sprint Turbo and I think it was around 32-35 litres used. They can get out of their way and with slightly wider tires are actually quite fine to cruise on the highway with (don't get blown around too much.

HOWEVER, a '86 or newer Civic is not necessarily "better", but would be "better" for the general population. VW's get TERRIBLE mpg.

Except, of course, the TDI.

ignorant wrote: 96 civic hatch, 63kmiles at purchase 36mpg city... 46mpg highway.... Airbags and A/C.. w000 2300 seriously, hatchbacks rule.

You will sell this to me next summer. You will...

My 95 Civic hatch (w/ d16z6 swap) got me through last summer's fuel crunch w/ 38-40mpg

Still going...

A 6th Gen Civic hatch or sedan will do it for me next car.

Well, I love the prospect of performance that E85 gives you, however, destroying a food supply isn't exactly a smart thing to do to produce fuel. The answer is hemp...unfortunately it cannot be legally grown in the USA because its female form happens to be MJ. Hemp is more efficient at producing ethanol than corn, and much more useful from a practicality stand-point(other than the fact that corn is food, but the argument is destruction of food isn't very practical), hell, hippies make clothes with it.

And I'd get a MK 1 Rabbit or Saab.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: The automakers will have time to get new products to the market to suit. Look, the Transit connect is here, the new Fiesta is coming, EcoBoost engines, hybrids etc etc. The automakers have already reacted to higher prices and the products will be there when the higher prices arrive.

What he said. Take the recent Focus for instance. I got around 35 MPG highway driving my rented Focus at 80-90MPH on a long trip from San Fran to Buttonwillow for LeMons. Nice motor, crappy stock suspension and mediocre interior.

CAFE standards are nice and aggressive these days so auto makers need to come through on efficiency.

Looking at older cars, there are some interesting Japanese and other Asian cars that fit the bill. The Mazda 323 and Protege is a fun, frugal driver. The current crop from Kia and Hyuandai do pretty well also.

Saturn S-series. Light, safe, fun to drive, easy to work on

And I 2nd the hemp comment.

Way ahead of you. My AE92 gets well over 30MPG (close to 40 if you hypermile it) and would be excellent for running from gangs of hooligans in assless chaps, and the Samurai gets around 30, can be fixed with stuff from the remains of a hardware store or parts from other vehicles, could be converted into a technical, and doesn't require roads.

<<<< I miss driving my rockett power'd beer can.

1 - Neon ACR

2 - $2500-3000

Gets 40mpg and doesn't run 17 second quarter miles like it's import contemporaries.

no nominations of Subarus as candidates? I find that interesting...