At home tire machines - my experience with Derek Weaver

Cool, thanks for sharing

I already have a coats rimclamp its 20 or so years old.. no 2nd arm or anything but if you can figure it out with spoons and tools then it'll be fine.

I will have to look into their balancers.

Greg

They're awesome. Added two new 20a circuits so I'm not tripping breakers all the time now. (Tire machine and compressor, balancer isn't a huge load).

I've done 25 tires for other people so far... Plus monkeyed around with all 3 loose sets of wheels/ tires I have stacked in my garage.

Even dismounted a pair of run flats for a C5 Corvette.

I have been playing with the balancer some... Zero problems with clamp on weights, but for stick ons inside the barrel it'll chase weights a bit. This is because it's manual input and where it "expects" you to put the weight is X distance inwards and Y distance closer to centerline based on the edge of the rim lip inputs. All wheels are not the same. So for instance with my TRM C1s I have figured out that for the outside weights (just behind the spokes) I must always subtract 0.25 from whatever it says. Otherwise it asks for another 0.25oz weight 180 deg off on the check spin. 

I've been meaning to take a video, but life's been pretty busy and it's pretty low on the list of priorities right now. I'll wait until I get some kind of awful tire to change to make it worthwhile with some little tricks, etc. Little extras and a second spoon make a huge difference. Plus slipping a plastic trim stick in when dismounting and removing the old tires keeps from any risk of scratching the wheel with a tire spoon.

I have a guy supposed to call me in the next few weeks to try and mount some 345s for his Corvette. Should be interesting.

Gripes about the balancer is not enough storage places for weights, etc. And I would love to have a brake to hold things still, but that's just me being picky. A storage solution will be coming very soon.

If you are chasing weight, calibrate the machine. Make sure you use a 15" steel wheel and steel wheel weights. 

In reply to Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) :

I've done exactly that. It's predictable, once I've done 1-2 identical wheels. My TRM C1s always call for 0.50 more weight on the inside than it actually needs when calibrated by the book with my 15in steel wheel.

This is because on this machine the ALU1/2/3 settings are based off of predetermined measurements from where the rim edges are (obtained from the distance, diameter, and width input).

On the ALU2 setting the dimensions of my wheels put the outer weight about 1in off location wise and 1/4in off radial-wise vs where the machine calculates it... And the inner weight is about 1/4in off radially and 1/4in off location wise.

Here are some manual diagrams showing how they're calculated:

The W977 machine directly measures the weight placement for stick ons... But is $1600 vs $1000. 

One workaround I've found is to calibrate the machine with whatever given wheel you want to balance, taping the 3.5oz calibration weight where the sticky weights go during the spin process. Machine thinks it's still on dynamic clip on type weights, but it's perfectly calibrated for stick ons where you want them. The process takes all of a minute to do. Otherwise you use stick ons like normal and just add more or remove a weight or two as necessary when it asks to counterbalance.

I've done several sets now, and as long as the machine says zero, it's under 0.25oz off and drives great on the highway.

Hmm, interesting. It must be in the programming. My Mayflower machine looks identical. If it's calibrated, it pretty much zeroes out without trouble. I've only calibrated it twice since I bought it 3 years ago.

In reply to Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) :

I'm curious to try and use a different steel wheel (something with more car like specs like an OEM Mazda steel wheel, etc) vs a Chevy Savanna steel wheel. It's almost a 2in difference in offset vs most of what I normally balance.

I also need to acquire an accurate scale to check my weights. I've heard that zinc weights are less accurate/consistent vs steel or lead. But need to verify. I'm sure shorter/more dense weights would help too for the cases when one is in the 1.5-2.5oz range.

For reference, I'm using a 15 x 7 Pro Comp steel wheel with a 235/75R15 AT tire from the Samurai.

I would think a van wheel would be similar. 

Are you using stick on weights or clip on weights to calibrate? 

In reply to Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) :

Clip on. The machine came with a P style 100g/3.5oz calibration weight.

To bump this up, I calibrated with a different steel wheel and no issues since. Machines working great. I have stuck some 225 RS4s on 9s, and just squeezed a 245 on a 7.5 wide wheel just for the hell of it to see if I could.

Assist arms not necessary with a NoMar Yellow Thing. Favorite add on tool hands down. I did a few sets of tires on some $$$$ 18in SSRs with reverse drop centers without issue and balanced some 315s on 11in wheels as well.

These machines are great bang for the buck!

Thanks for the update. Will be considering dw for my machines!

Greg

Been staying super busy now that people are getting ready for the season to start.  First pic is basically my work for the next 2-3 days, with 3 more sets to be dropped off before the weekend.

I put some Hoosiers on the BBS wheels with zero marks/scratches, etc.

Also have gotten to good around some and mounted a 195 RS4 on a 15x9 just for the heck of it. Was borrowing a rim from a friend for test fitment purposes on the car and couldn't resist. The bead bazooka is awesome.

Doing more dumb things because I can... Hoosier 20x7.5-13 on a stock Geo Metro 13x5.5in wheel.... 

To date I've mounted and balanced at least 80 tires not counting any of my own. Love these machines.

Also I found that my wheel weights were partially to blame... I got some cheap weights initially... Switch to Mr. Lugnut steel coated weights which are more dense and more consistent from one to the other. On a food scale some of my old 3oz strips varied by as much as 0.30oz from one to the next. The Mr. Lugnut ones are within 0.05oz one to the next.

Would it be possible for you to measure the footprint of these machines? I looked all over the website and downloaded all documents and did not find the info, all I found is the clearance needed to use the tire changer.

Thanks!

Slippery (Forum Supporter) said:

Would it be possible for you to measure the footprint of these machines? I looked all over the website and downloaded all documents and did not find the info, all I found is the clearance needed to use the tire changer.

Thanks

Do you just want the bare footprint of each machine (ignoring the tire shovel and the balancer shaft?)? Or do you want the needed physical space for them?

Sorry about the delay - I don't check here terribly often.

In reply to Slippery (Forum Supporter) :

Disregard... It's easier for me to just give you both

Mounter:

43 deep x 24 wide base footprint

Really need 48 x 48 for shovel clearance

75 tall

Balancer: 24 x 24 base footprint, 42 wide including the shaft screw

Really need 52in width to have clearance for putting wheels on/off if it's pointed towards a wall 

In reply to flatlander937 :

Perfect!! That's exactly what I needed. Thanks!

I mounted up another of the Hoosier 20x"7.5"-13s(actually measures 10in wide section width) on a Geo 5.5 wide wheel... These are unmounted slick vs 205 Toyo RA1 that came off vs bare wheel for reference...

...this is what they look like before airing up. It's interesting to try and make them hold air 

Just a quick follow-up, I'm up to about 400 to 450 tires mounted and balanced on these two machines... No real issues at all.

I did run into the first wheel I could not balance last night though, it was a steel eight lug wheel from a 1970s F-250... I have the truck adapter, but because the wheel is not perfectly hub centric it would never center correctly... The other issue is Even with it on the machine... The whole balancer wants to tip over. The weight and offset of the wheel make it just borderline wanting to fall over so if you plan to do large e-rated tires on a regular basis, you absolutely need to bolt this thing to the floor. The tire machine mounted them with zero issues at all... Using the bead blaster built into the machine worked great for seating the floppy side walls.

In reply to flatlander937 :

I ran into that problem with the tires on my Class A RV. I figured I would try the balance beads. They work perfectly. 

I've done several of these wide and short Hoosier road race slicks recently so got this on video:

This is a pain in the ass fitment because it's only a 25.5in tall tire that measures just under 12in wide going on an 18x9 wheel. The assist arm would speed things up a bit, but is largely unnecessary.

​​​​​​Airing it up to 120psi doesn't exactly give me a warm fuzzy feeling, but this is pretty typical for these non-DOT radial slicks. I'd like to build some kind of net or cage to go over and attach to the rotary table. 

You might consider picking up a couple of bead clamps. They are cheap and they may work better than the rag.

You haven't had fun until you have done a set of rubber bands on 20" wheels. 

The rag looked like one of those nomar yellow things.  But I agree the bead clamps are nice.  I have not tried the yellow thing.

https://www.amazon.com/No-Mar-AC-Y-03905111-Yellow-Thing-Tire/dp/B011J6KXR8

You might want to look at a manual bead roller instead of moving your tire lever 10 times.

https://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas-Manual-Bead-Roller-Arm

In reply to moxnix :

I believe you are correct. On my phone I didn't see anything but the rag. 

In reply to moxnix :

I've never seen anyone with actual experience with those recommend them. A friend of mine has the same machine (and has lots more tire experience than me, he worked at a tire store for nearly 8 years), and told me to not even bother. There's no way to stabilize the bar as it wants to physically twist as far as the play in the bracket allows, then crash into the wheel, plus the roller doesn't roll smoothly for long. If you've never mounted a hard compound non-DOT slick you might be underestimating just how much force is needed.

I'd be inclined to spend the $650 for the assist arm setup first. 

FWIW I have a second pry bar and using both helps the situation as well, I wasn't in much of a hurry though.

And yes the No Mar Yellow Thing is amazing. I think if you turn the volume up I actually mentioned it. My only gripe is they get torn up quickly. When new I put them in a sock or two for added cushion and scratch resistance. This is my really rough one that is used strictly for crappy condition wheels + PITA fitments like this. I have another that stays in good condition for normal use. 

I'll be pulling some Mini Cooper runflats off tonight to install some DWS-06s for a friend.

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

You might consider picking up a couple of bead clamps. They are cheap and they may work better than the rag.
 

 

You haven't had fun until you have done a set of rubber bands on 20" wheels. 

I have one plus three of the basic insert type drop center tools. They're all visible hanging on the wall while I'm waiting the tire up in the video.

The clip on ones are just ok. They still collapse and tilt inwards allowing the tire to pop above the drop center on these tires. I actually tried it on the first tire I did. 

The small ones come in handy when dismounting pinched fitments like this, use pry bar and insert them at a few spots around the wheel so when prying upwards the opposite side goes into the drop center.