BMW/Mini OBD2 code curiosity (Torque and dealer disagree?)

Or did Torque and the dealer just find different real things?

As we wall know, an OBD2 code may relate strangely to the actual issue. In this case, there are a couple of disconnects that leave me wondering whether the code I saw temporarily twice (as pending) is the same thing the dealer found.

I'll try to lay out things as they occurred, though I don't think it's an order-of-operations puzzle.

1. On a longish drive home, got CEL after a rest stop.
2. Arrived home, used Torque to read code. Pending P143C "Camshaft Position Actuator ‘B’ Control Open Circuit Bank 1 (BMW)". Did not clear code, as problem not repaired.
3. A day or two later while still pondering whether to drag it to the dealer, the CEL clears, presumably because we've gone through sufficient cycles without a reoccurrence.
4. A couple of weeks with no issues
5. CEL reoccurs, same code. Again, just read code, did not clear; CEL still present. Make appointment two days out with Mini dealer.
6. Next day, CEL clears itself. Call Mini to confirm they can still have a look.
7. Take Mini to dealer. They replace the radiator (under warranty) "due to a defective catalyst sensor that is integrated into the radiator." Am told on clarification that this is the fix for the CEL. Invoice shows that they found "fault 1B8004". Which appears to support the weird radiator catalyst thing. Oddly, I found this page while searching for that code, but can't find that code when searching within the page...

I should add that I don't think there's anything nefarious going on here; I'm trying trying to figure out if I'm getting odd behavior out of Torque and/or my ultra-generic OBD2 bluetooth dongle (and I see that Torque has gone as far as advising against using the super-cheap ones)

It seems like Mini found an actual code and did a replacement of a part causing an issue (interesting that the radiator seems to have a "sensor" that just reports that it is indeed a catalytic radiator, though that's part of OBD2 being able to report that all emissions parts are present; weirder is that the "I'm here and legit" part could fail).

So... It sounds like the dealer found a code that was present for their reader but hadn't thrown a CEL, but didn't find any code stored for the CEL I saw and which I didn't clear, but which cleared itself (apparently NOT leaving anything set for the dealer to find)?

Anybody have any insights into whether it's possible for an iffy adaptor to actually report an incorrect code? And the odds of it reporting garbage that happened to align with another plausible BMW-specific code seem long. So then the question is about whether a code that clears itself should leave anything to read? And is it odd that I had an active CEL but only had a "pending" P143C?

I have three scan tools, and they don't always agree.  Particularly with Euro, if you get into manufacturer specific codes, even a Snap on scan tool is iffy.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

Good to know, thank you; I think the part that confuses me the most is the notion that it could misreport the actual code, as opposed to whether it can correctly look up a definition from that code.

Where in the process, if at all, could one read "P143C" while the other reads "1B8004"? It's sort of outside my notion of how OBD2 works: That the "tell me the fault codes" command should be standard, and the format of the results standard, even if the manufacturer has added codes beyond the OBD2 standard...

It's also so odd that both codes are clearly BMW-specific.

I would guess that  P143C is an OBDII code that only BMW (maybe a few other manufacturers) uses.  The 1B8004 code based on format is clearly a BMW only code and not really part of the OBDII specification.

I have garbage codes from generic code readers on most modern vehicles, the cheap ones don't usually have all the definitions.  Manufacturer Specific is the only way to get 100% accurate answers.  

In reply to Hal :

I agree; my impression is that both are BMW-specific codes, outside the OBD2 spec. The web lookup for P143C notes BMW-specificity, which is totally cool with the OBD2 spec as I understand it. That is, you have to support the standard's list of codes, and you can add whatever you want on top of that, so long as the DEQ can pull the diagnostics they're interested in and get codes they understand without a special BMW tool or info.

The part that remains odd to me is that I pulled one code, and the dealer pulled another, but neither of us got the other's code. A little googling is suggesting that the "pending" code I read might not have triggered the CEL, as a code might need to go from pending to active to do that. Meaning that the CEL was being triggered by an active 1B8004 that I wasn't seeing in Torque, while Torque was seeing the coincidental P143C pending code.

I wish I'd pulled out Torque to check for codes after the first time the car cleared the CEL itself. Or that if I did, I could remember what I got. 

I'm starting to think a better OBD2 adapter's cost might be paid for in reduced fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

So I guess I have a broader OBD2 question, or clarification: I thought that an OBD2 conversation for codes looked like:

• Scanner: "Hey car, give me any error codes you have set!"
• Car: "Uh, let's see... P143C, 1B8004, P0442"
• Scanner: "Hey human, I have no idea what P143C or 1B8004 mean, maybe they're manufacturer specific, but you've got a small evaporative emissions system leak P0442"

Importantly, the codes are just a few alphanumeric characters; the reader should be able to tell me "P143C" even if it has no idea what it means. Or is there something more complicated here? Assuming for a moment that Torque really failed to give me a 1B8004 that was set, is it a failure of my cheap adapter, or is there something about some codes such that it prevents even being passed along by a generic reader? If the latter, that's... annoying.

There's nothing I know of that says that a manufacturer can't respond to a basic error code request with basic information, and respond to a BMW-secret-handshake error code request with additional information as long as they're not hiding emissions malfunction from the DEQ... BUT; this wouldn't be an instance of that. The error code I pulled was specific and was an electromechanical system fault. The error code I failed to pull was a failure to have the entire emissions system present, which I would think would fall into the category of things the DEQ needs to be told without needing a BMW machine.

Boy am I wordy today. Maybe I really should start by upgrading my adapter. Sounds like the Carly unit might work with Torque and then actually with their own app pull more BMW-specific codes.

OR... I can continue with the notion that I don't care, this car is someone else's problem. But if I didn't at least read codes, I'd have ended up taking it to the dealer when that dingus as the gas station got the gas cap tether tangled in the threads and set a P0442...

With my E55, when I had a bad conductor plate I only got a P07xx code with a generic fault for the transmission.  Hooking up my STAR laptop gave me the exact codes that were also P07xx but could not be read via conventional means.

Not sure how that relates to your exact situation, just stating that some cars, especially euro, or new CAN stuff with other module faults that are reported over OBD, you really need something from the OEM, or a clone of the OEM.  

This is what you need:

INPA software

If you are planning on keeping the car and working on it yourself  it is a worthwhile investment. 

Torque is generic OBD-II.  BMW are awful for having wildly different diagnostic strategy for internal diag and generic.  Generic is pretty much useless on BMWs, it is only offered because it is mandatory, and you can tell that they very much met the letter of the law and not the spirit.

The good part is, often you will clear the codes, and they will still exist in the other system, so you have to go in and clear both.  Makes it "fun" when trying to diagnose a fueling problem that is so out of whack that it starts misfiring, and the response to having an active misfire is to kill the injector for affected cylinders, so you have to quickly go back into BOTH systems and clear so it runs on all cylinders again, and hope you can get back into the (very slow) datastream and get useful info before it starts dropping cylinders again...

BMW does not play nice.

If you want a handheld scanner that is BMW-specific, the Schwaben tool sold by ECS Tuning is good and apparently on sale at the moment.

Thanks, everybody!

I'm getting the gist, but simmering it down to the one thing I find the oddest, not because I disagree with the info above, but because I just want to point out how *weird* it is:

• The code I *was* able to look up was a BMW-specific cam timing actuator issue
• The code I *wasn't* able to look up was an emissions compliance issue (really the crux of why there's a generic standard)

Isn't that backwards of what one would expect?

Anyhow, thanks to all for the answers; however non-intuitive or backward it may be, clearly a BMW-specific tool is in my future.

BMW diagnostic is schizophrenic.  You need BOTH tools, there is some useful into in generic that you can't get with BMW-specific data, and there is some useful info in specific that you can't get with generic.

Fuel trims, for example, are done as the usual long term/short term in generic-land, but in BMW-land they actually monitor offset and gain (not their terminology), which is tough to wrap your head around at first but it is kinda awesome in a way.  But you don't fail emissions for "offset too high", you fail for "bank 1/2 lean", so you need to go into generic to see the WHAT and then go into the enhanced to see the why.

In reply to Knurled. :

That's kind of horrifying, even if more info sounds better than not enough...

I ordered the Schwaben tool, even though I'm annoyed that it claims not to be able to do the basic stuff with non-BMW/Mini cars... (Given that it nominally does generic OBD2, which shouldn't differ by mfr; not sure whether it's hiccup of FCP's documentation, which claimed it was incompatible with my random example of a recent Golf, or whether Schwaben/Foxwell have set the tool up to read mfr/VIN info and refuse to work on non-BMWs... Their basic one is half the price, so not a huge additional investment, but it would bother me if they hamstrung it intentionally)

Ransom said:

In reply to Knurled. :

That's kind of horrifying, even if more info sounds better than not enough...

I ordered the Schwaben tool, even though I'm annoyed that it claims not to be able to do the basic stuff with non-BMW/Mini cars... (Given that it nominally does generic OBD2, which shouldn't differ by mfr; not sure whether it's hiccup of FCP's documentation, which claimed it was incompatible with my random example of a recent Golf, or whether Schwaben/Foxwell have set the tool up to read mfr/VIN info and refuse to work on non-BMWs... Their basic one is half the price, so not a huge additional investment, but it would bother me if they hamstrung it intentionally)

Interesting. I never tried mine on a non-BMW, but when you turn it on it offers a choice of BMW/MINI and OBD2, so I figured it could be used either way. If I get a chance I'll plug it in to something else and report back.

In reply to 02Pilot :

On a fresh morning, it dawns on me that I should grumble less before testing. I'm curious about what you find out; I was probably abusing ECS's "Does this work with my car?" tool, which seemed to know that the basic Foxwell tool was compatible with a Mk VII Golf, while saying that the BMW tool wasn't.

It could easily be a side-effect of that website tool not having been built to accommodate something which fits one things very specfically, but is compatible with another.

Fingers crossed that it does generic OBD2 in a more or less expected fashion.

Haven't plugged it into the car yet, but just went through the initial software update, and it looks like this will not only do generic OBD2 on anything, but you can also purchase the software to extend it to add four more manufacturers' beyond-OBD2 stuff without having to buy duplicate hardware, at $60/mfr for the the ones I peeked at (GM, Ford, VW, Volvo). Fingers still crossed!

If all else fails and you don't mind spending $60+ just for an app, Carly is pretty decent and works straight from your phone.

Only downside is that, at least for BMW, they're now charging $60 for the app and $60/year subscription...

Edit: You also shouldn't need to buy their version of an OBD2 adapter; any BT adapter should work just fine; I personally use a $15 cable from eBay.

First functional report on the Schwaben/Foxwell tool:

• Totally does generic OBD2 on anything; happily just used it to read and clear a code on a friend's 2002 GTI
• Does both OBD2 and BMW-specfic stuff on my Mini, though there appears to be nothing to report right now (as I'd hope, though I'm still wondering what the cam actuator open circuit thing was, since the dealer never mentioned it and fixed what must have been a different thing)
• Only major annoyance so far is that it should do an automatic VIN-acquisition thing in BMW/Mini/Rolls Royce(!) mode, and it took a long time, then failed, then managed to read but was unable to decode the VIN to identify what kind of vehicle I have.

On that last point, I had updated the scanner from Foxwell's site, so it should have had current info; it's not like I was asking a three year old scanner to identify this year's model. The car's a 2016, and there was a BMW update available, but no dice. It read the VIN correctly on the third go (the very first I actually gave up because it was taking so long, the second failed properly), but I had to manually select my Make/chassis code...