alfadriver wrote: Wow, first car sold to someone who knows a poster here, and the car is so inadequate that it needs another $2-10k worth of mods? so it missed the apparent mark, then.
You're kidding, right? Because what I read was that it not only hit the mark, it split the arrow.
alfadriver wrote: Wow, first car sold to someone who knows a poster here, and the car is so inadequate that it needs another $2-10k worth of mods? so it missed the apparent mark, then.
For a street car it's fine as it is. For track use, it needs $2k-$10k of mods, but what cars in this price range don't? Most come with garbage tires, could use bigger rims and stiffer suspension, a bit more power...same stuff. And most will be a lot heavier and FWD, good luck fixing that with mods.
The FR-S' main competitor is a modded-up old car the potential buyers are likely to already own.
Raze wrote: AWD not possible given the engine position essentially on with the front of the engine about an inch past the front wheels, the trans looks funny sticking into the engine bay all by itself...
Man I am sick of seeing this. Is this a ricer ignorance thing or just general ignorance? LOTS of cars have had a differential packaged in with the engine oil pan. Move the engine around, get clever with diff and axle packaging, etc...these are not impossible problems, especially if an OEM just really wanted it to happen.
Please stop saying this. Meanwhile, I'm going to post this here:
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/automotive-myths-lore-and-other-incorrectness/49572/page11/#post887212
Bryce
Playing devil's advocate again - why is this car better than an RX-8? Ok reliability, looks and MPG, but why is it a better driver's car?
Still, the axles would be lined up with a piston bore on this engine...they'd have to jack up the engine a good 10"+ to put a diff in the oil pan, or move it forward nearly 2ft for a Subie/Audi-style setup.
Edit: Unless you just want to run some CVs at crazy angles in very tight spaces.
In reply to Nashco:
No need to get bent out of shape, I was just saying as the car sits, sure it could be made to accept AWD, I'm just not seeing it given the current layout or without changing the hood and engine position which is very low and flat, i.e. not made for it, take a look before you start bashing, I've never seen such a rough post by you dude...
Otto Maddox wrote: Playing devil's advocate again - why is this car better than an RX-8? Ok reliability, looks and MPG, but why is it a better driver's car?
433 fewer lbs to lug around = makes all vehicle dynamics better.
Otto Maddox wrote: Why do you guys want to immediately overwhelm the car with huge wheels and tires? Sure, it might be a tad undertired, but jeez.
I just want to change the tires for something with grip, like an R-S3 or a Star Spec. I'd be okay with the stock size or stock wheels! I just want to see what it can do without the iron & oil "eco" tires it has stock.
Winston wrote:Otto Maddox wrote: Playing devil's advocate again - why is this car better than an RX-8? Ok reliability, looks and MPG, but why is it a better driver's car?433 fewer lbs to lug around = makes all vehicle dynamics better.
To me it's also the smaller size. Reliability was ruled out, but that's a big one, I don't get free engine maintenance money.
Javelin wrote:Otto Maddox wrote: Why do you guys want to immediately overwhelm the car with huge wheels and tires? Sure, it might be a tad undertired, but jeez.I just want to change the tires for something with grip, like an R-S3 or a Star Spec. I'd be okay with the stock size or stock wheels! I just want to see what it can do without the iron & oil "eco" tires it has stock.
Yeah, I am with you on this. I don't need monstrous tires on it, just better ones.
alfadriver wrote: Wow, first car sold to someone who knows a poster here, and the car is so inadequate that it needs another $2-10k worth of mods? so it missed the apparent mark, then.
Seriously? That's your dig?!? I don't think there's been a single car purchased on this forum that hasn't had tires swapped, including my Mazda5, Brad's 944, aussie's Elantra, etc, etc. I mean, seriously? It's bad that we want to add grip!!?!? 
Nashco wrote:Raze wrote: AWD not possible given the engine position essentially on with the front of the engine about an inch past the front wheels, the trans looks funny sticking into the engine bay all by itself...Man I am sick of seeing this. Is this a ricer ignorance thing or just general ignorance? LOTS of cars have had a differential packaged in with the engine oil pan. Move the engine around, get clever with diff and axle packaging, etc...these are not impossible problems, especially if an OEM just really wanted it to happen. Please stop saying this. Meanwhile, I'm going to post this here: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/automotive-myths-lore-and-other-incorrectness/49572/page11/#post887212 Bryce
That would work if the OIL PAN was inline with the front hubs instead of the bekeleying CYLINDERS. I know you think it's possible, but would you LOOK at the damn thing first?!?! Sheesh!
Raze wrote: In reply to Nashco: No need to get bent out of shape, I was just saying as the car sits, sure it could be made to accept AWD, I'm just not seeing it given the current layout or without changing the hood and engine position which is very low and flat, i.e. not made for it, take a look before you start bashing, I've never seen such a rough post by you dude...
Straw that broke the camel's back. I'm not bashing you specifically, rather the general populus who exaggerate the challenge as though making the car AWD would be less likely than putting a man on Mars. Every time this car comes up on this forum, I see people saying AWD isn't possible. Changing a hood or engine position is extremely common in the automotive world, if that's what it takes, no need to fear it. There are plenty of other ways to solve the problem without significant chassis modifications, it is indeed possible. Say it's not likely or something...semantics, sure, but "impossible" is definitely the wrong word.
If somebody absolutely wanted AWD in their BRZ/FRS, I'd love to make one AWD and show the world it can be done with a little creativity and confidence that it's possible.
We have the technology.
Bryce
In reply to Nashco:
Please elaborate as to your solution. We are all ears! Because to us people who haven't ever homebuilt an AWD car, it looks impossible. So I seriously want to know what your solution would be.
Hey if money and performance are no object, you can either move the engine to a completely screwed-up position, use electric front drive, or make a custom portal axle/CV hybrid system coming from the oil pan.
I think it sounds fantastic. Mods?
Big front sway bar, set of lightweight wheels in the biggest stock size, set of Hoosiers and some magnetic numbers and letters to stick on the side. That'd be my list. Any idea what stock class it will get put in?
Otto Maddox wrote: Playing devil's advocate again - why is this car better than an RX-8? Ok reliability, looks and MPG, but why is it a better driver's car?
I think reliability and MPG factors heavily into making a good driver's car. You're not going to drive a 10mpg beast as much, and if it's in the shop all the time or threatening to break all the time you're going to grow to hate it.
But within your parameters, I would say price and weight. The RX-8 was a few grand more, new, than the FRS. And it weighs a few hundred pounds more.
In reply to dculberson:
Good enough. I am sold now. 10 years ago I would have actually bought one new. Now I am too old and my needs have changed. Oh well.
Lesley wrote: Canadian buyers would probably garage their cars over the winter – not much chance of snow clearance there! My MX3 has 5.7" of clearance, and it's awful on ruts.
This should prove interesting then. Whole reason I bought the damn thing was to have a winter beater that could entertain during the bleak season.
Otto Maddox wrote: Playing devil's advocate again - why is this car better than an RX-8? Ok reliability, looks and MPG, but why is it a better driver's car?
I'll give you mpg, looks are subjective, and reliability...I can buy a few new engines for the $15,000 price premium over my used RX-8, and I can still haul the kids around. I really like the toyabaru and hope it does well, but for the money I would buy a used Elise.
Oh, I'm sure it would be a riot in the snow... but you might turtle on the deep ruts :-)
Javelin wrote: In reply to Nashco: Please elaborate as to your solution. We are all ears! Because to us people who haven't ever homebuilt an AWD car, it looks impossible. So I seriously want to know what your solution would be.
Solution: Leave your BRZ and credit card in my shop for 6 months. I guarantee your BRZ will be AWD.
Do you think I knew the entire method of how to make an AWD hybrid Fiero before I actually made it? (Rhetorical question, of course I didn't) By saying something is possible, I'm not saying it is possible and let me show you some detailed drawings to illustrate my point...I'm saying it is possible. I don't know how to build a laser that puts holes in metal, but I still think it's possible.
Bryce
Javelin wrote: In reply to Nashco: Please elaborate as to your solution. We are all ears! Because to us people who haven't ever homebuilt an AWD car, it looks impossible. So I seriously want to know what your solution would be.
I am going to have to go with Nashco on this one. It won't work with the current AWD transmission used by Subaru behind that engine, but it is far from impossible. The diff can be offset and one of the axles can go through the engine. If an important part of the engine is in the way move the engine forward or backwards a few inches.
Javelin wrote: In reply to Nashco: Please elaborate as to your solution. We are all ears! Because to us people who haven't ever homebuilt an AWD car, it looks impossible. So I seriously want to know what your solution would be.
Devils advocate here. since the car is rwd, just put a transfer case on the back of the transmission, then run a drive shaft to a front differntial. That's the basics, no problem The problem is can these items be mounted on this car. Don't forget , it has a wide , low mounted engine. Flexible drive shaft ?
Seems silly to me to make it AWD. There's already a ton of WRXs you can buy. Making this into one of them kind of defeats the whole purpose for me. I like that it's a simple, front engine, rear drive car. Makes it relatively light and should handle in a way those of us who like that traditional lay out will enjoy.
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