Calling all Roll cage experts!

So I have a racecar sitting in my driveway that may have been built circa 1978 (if the manufacture date on the fuel cell has any relevance). I would like to re-prep it for the challenge this year. That means the cage will need to meet NHRA and SCCA safety specs. I don't plan on besting 13.49 in the 1/4 if that matters for the NHRA cage piece.

If a cage is not required - but a cage exists does it still need to meet the 'cage' spec needs?

The cage is mostly bolted in but there is some welding. I could pretty easily weld this thing in its current place I think. Before I go there however, I'll ask the question - do I need massive re-structuring of this thing before it can even think about being legal? Maybe it can be considered as chassis stiffening rather than roll cage?

Go easy on me - I am mostly new to cages and I didn't build this one though it actually seems like it was well put together.

That's not a cage. That's a collection of random tubing pasted together with nuts & bolts and some welding. If you don't think you're going to go fast enough to need a cage cut this one out. In fact cut it out and recycle it! There are no "legal" cages spec by any racing body that call for square section tubing. All call for round tubing, either DOM (Mild or Cromoly steel) or ERW. The last is not always allowed by some racing bodies. But none of them that I know of allow the use of square or rectangular tubing anyplace in the required parts of a roll cage.

P.S. I had to double check to see what day this was. For a minute I would have guessed that it was Aprils Fools Day!

Well, that is definitely not a legal cage, nor is it close to one. To make it legal, you'd have to replace the main hoop so that it goes from the frame rail to frame rail in one piece, then and add rear legs through the rear window area to the tops of the strut towers or frame rails.

You'd probably be better off to scrap the top half of it and use the lower bits of it to stiffen the chassis/door area as it exists. Make sure to pad the hell out of it.

Here's an example of proper Exxie cage:

http://www.rollcageguy.com/gallery/Fiat/Fiat.htm

Hope this helps and best of luck.

I think you would be safer without that "rollcage" than with it

no april fools here. Maybe I am the fool, but that is TBD (for me - plenty of others have already made a decision I'm sure).

Ok, so here are a couple specific questions:

1. Is it safe to say that if my cage passes NHRA tech it will also pass SCCA? Based on how I read the rules, the NHRA tech seems to be more specific. And that linked blue car is an SCCA racer but the cage looks to be textbook NHRA (from my limited knowledge).
2. If I want to use say the door bars or some piece of this as chassis-stiffening, how do I make it clear it is not part of the cage?

Thanks!

I wonder what this thing was built for initially?

Does it still have the full unibody? The square tubing looks more like someone tried to build a Locost-style tube frame chassis inside it rather than being intended as a cage. I can't explain the bolts, though.

None of the Square tube is allowed for any of it. it may pass a lower class dirt track but Not a sactionioning like Nascar Nhra or Scca. were it for a frame it would be 2x3 inch but all above the frame rails Have to be like the top of yours. Look at pics from Canadaian Stock car Products Cages they come in a kit or can be bought assembeled. they are also the BEST on the Market you can get and have been around for 30 years I know of. chrome moly is expensive very ridged and Cannot be reused after taking a hit,it must be replaced ....But its light.

Nhra and Scca cages are kinda sorta similar, and sorta different. Basically, if you build an Scca cage using Nhra tube, you would have to have a fairly autocratic dick for an inspector to fail.

You have fiberglass doors it appears and not much left of the stock structure above the frame rails (even the rear sail panels where much of the strength is found look to be altered).

So like I said, I'd remove the round tube portions as they aren't legal and won't ever be legal and you can avoid having to explain it to a tech guy, let alone remove or hack it up in the parking lot at the Challenge.

I mean, given how stiff an X-1/9 is naturally its not really needed for an autocross/drag race. So just leave the "frame reinforcements" to help with the lightweight doors and since they came with the car, they won't count towards your budget (unless you add to the structure). Pad them and/or hide them behind panels to make them look decent and to keep the squidgy organic bits from impacting them in the event of a spin, etc.

Recycle the steel from what you don't use of the "cage" and put that money back towards your budget.

Neither NHRA or SCCA will Fail Curved Door bars but SCCA Might Fail Straight door bars on the Driver side where as NHRA Allows straight bars on the driver side NASCAR requires Curved door bars on Both sides except on short track Offset Chassis and really It's Smarter(you could spin and take a hit on the Passenger side) this is why I keep repeating Cages should be free at the challenge but I see that kinda makes the car a Purpose built Vehicle.I think NHRA only Requires a Hoop in a convertable at 13 seconds But I may be off a second. again Look at Canadain Stock Car Products They make road race Cages also.

Stefan wrote: You have fiberglass doors it appears and not much left of the stock structure above the frame rails (even the rear sail panels where much of the strength is found look to be altered).

I'm not sure what you are seeing - the square tube sections are just bolted to the unibody but none of the unibody looks cut out. Even the 'factory' roll hoop is 100% intact with the exception of the holes on top where the roll bar is screwed in.

Are you seeing something I'm not?

So if I go sans roll bar - is that even legal? I can't imagine so without a factory windshield, but the NHRA rules are really hard to interpret on that (lots of rules point to "convertibles must..." or "dune buggy-based specials..." but I see no definitions of each type of car).

I belive your car is considered a convertable, I consider my Vette one as that Targa top look Aint sh-- in a roll over

Robbie, Did you have a chance to look into you roll bar situation any Farther, I am by no means an expert, but I am VERY saftey oriented. If we Know your build Intensions it will help in knowing what you might need, and I would be more than willing to help any way I can.

In reply to GTXVette:

Thank you. I started drilling out rivets on the front dash to get to a point of unbolting the top hoops yesterday.

I also re-read the scca solo rules on roll bars, and I am going to be forced to run one. (All a-mod cars need a roll bar, and I will be defaulted to a-mod since I plan to run a motorcycle engine).

So, there's that.

When it's out you may as well just Ditch it, I only say that "cause by the time you REenginer that one you can get new for a couple hundred bucks that looks like the blue car has. Can you do Quality welds Bet someone you know can! that is just a 6 point with x'ed door bars on the Pass. side and curved bars on Driver side w/dash Bar, easy stuff I see them on CL a lot Drag stuff mostly But Easy to do Driver side.

Wait did you say Motorcycle engine........... How Bout a 3.0 honda v6 set in Back drop the whole Cradle w/ auto and Fab up some mounts.!

You need to be following SCCA rules and ignore NHRA.

The tubing sizes required for NHRA will double the weight of that cage. That's not what you want in a lightweight low torque racer.

I'm pretty sure the motorcycle engine will put you squarely in A-mod.

However, with the new safety rule enforcement, you might want to double check with GRM. I'm not even sure a dual purpose cage is technically possible (I looked at that a couple years ago). But it will come down to enforcement, and that's GRM's territory.

Here's what I found under the aluminum dash panels

So, I think there is a distinction between a roll bar and a roll cage - and SCCA rules look like I may only need the former. Does that sound right?

GTXVette wrote: Wait did you say Motorcycle engine........... How Bout a 3.0 honda v6 set in Back drop the whole Cradle w/ auto and Fab up some mounts.!

We have considered many engines of many shapes and sizes.

But while plans may change, as of right now we are going for ultimate low weight. And the bike does really well in HP/LB.

the Vette will be Overkill for both SCCA and NHRA but it isn't Specific to either one It will be more like a Cup Car but not so many Bars and on a Factory Frame,Hoping for 2500lbs and Boucoups of Power.

I would rip all that out and start over. We are talking your safety here. Why risk it. Is the steel pieces below the steering wheel so it is between your legs? If so that MUST go away unless you want to run the risk of getting bisected.

Dean is correct the coloum should Hang from the Dash crossbar.

Wow, that really looks like a deathtrap. I'd pull all that out and start over with DOM.

As a former X owner I'm interested in how they implemented the center steering.

It's a great chassis, should be a perfect challenge platform once you remove the death tubing.