Can one be happy with a dual-clutch?

I've been driving a CVT in a Caliber. Its ok for puttering, but useless for going even remotely fast.

I fear I'm a luddite when it comes to transmissions. If its a cruiser, it should have a torque converter. Anything else needs 3 pedals.

alfadriver wrote: IMHO, the key problem with DSG's are very slow drives and drive away from rest. That's when the clutch slippage is in action. Customers who buy automatics expect some kind of crawl feature, and we all know that's terrible on clutches.

When the dual clutch was introduced in the Focus a lot of the complaints I heard were directly related to this.

Those who came to the dual clutch from only driving automatics had problems and those who had had manuals didn't see any problem.

A young friend of mine (who had never driven a manual transmission vehicle) bought one and was complaining about it. I drove the car and didn't have any problem. It behaved differently (but not unexpectedly so) from the conventional automatic transmissions I was used to when in automatic mode but was just what I expected when I used the manual mode.

I think that part of the problem was that it was marketed as an automatic transmission rather than an automatically shifted manual transmission. So people who bought it expected it to behave just like their torque converter automatic and it definitely didn't.

Hal wrote: Those who came to the dual clutch from only driving automatics had problems and those who had had manuals didn't see any problem.

Yeah, I can sometimes tell that the software gets confused sometimes when doing parking lot maneuvers and it feels like it does when you flub the clutch take-up properly. I suspect that over time I'll learn what exactly confuses it and how to drive around it. :)

codrus wrote: Even traditional automatics shift pretty quickly these days. IMHO, it's really the disconnection mechanism that makes the difference in how they drive -- torque converter vs single clutch vs dual clutch, vs CVT.

I read a few reviews of the F-Type that incorrectly called the transmission a dual-clutch. The publications that got it right called it almost as good.

Haha fair enough. I guess what I really meant is I dont think the dual clutch deserves near the negative connotation that the words "automatic transmission" bring.

I agree with that.

Even traditional automatics shift pretty quickly these days. IMHO, it's really the disconnection mechanism that makes the difference in how they drive -- torque converter vs single clutch vs dual clutch, vs CVT.

Well, it used to be that autos had like 50% more rotating mass than a manual, plus fluid pump drive losses, plus converter losses, plus less gears. Now they have the same or more gears, and torque converters have lockup clutches that are locked up more and more of the time, which increases efficiency but also makes them feet better to enthusiasts. They still have more rotating mass, but dual clutches also have pump drive losses now. It's become way more of a fight than back when it was 3spd non-lockup auto vs 5spd manual. I think it's fantastic. I thrive on thinking about how things work, and all the action on transmissions in the last ten years has not only made almost all cars better, but given me lots of interesting things to try to wrap my brain around.

Old family story may be apropos. Or not. I don't remember it but my sister tells it all the time. I was 18 and talking, for some reason, to my mother about cars. She (Mom) learned to drive before WWII. She said she preferred automatic transmissions because she didn't want to have to concentrate that much on shifting. I allegedly replied: "Perhaps you shouldn't be driving at all."

I always comment that it can't be true because I'm still alive but my sister swears she was there.

I really enjoy the ZF 8 speed that's in my Grand Cherokee. It's got the paddle shifters and a torque converter. Wiki says it can shift in 0.2 seconds and that seems about right. As for an automatic, this is the best that I've used. Click off the Eco button and you get the throttle response back, which is great for congested city driving, or go right to Race/Sport mode and have it hang gears or down shift.

I'd still prefer a manual in a sports car but for anything else, this is pretty good.

I was lucky enough to attend the BMW Driving Experience last week at their SC plant. I got to run a bunch of stuff around an autox course and a short road course...M235i, Z4, M4, M5. They all had the dual clutch autos. While a stick is still more fun, I found them to be very responsive in fully automatic mode...they did a good job predicting when I would need to grab another gear. When using the paddles, they were pretty damn close to as much fun as a full 3 pedal set up. They rip off shifts way faster than I ever could.

And oh...I can't even find words to say how much fun it was to whip the hell out of a brand new M4 and M5.