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octavious said:

Ugh. This is one of those moments when I wish I knew more about carbs.  I also wish I could find someone near me to help. I've posted on the local Jeep FB groups about a carb expert willing to help, but haven't found anyone yet. 

They're fairly simple devices, but in the age of EFI are not well understood anymore.

Pete listed several things that could be at play, most of which will be eliminated by a quick re-baseline of the settings (assuming it's a simple carb, not something like the electronic Q-jet) and squirting starter fluid at any possible sources of vacuum/air leaks - if engine speed increases with a blast, there's an air leak.

If the carb is looking mucky, shooting some carb cleaner at it will help you see what's going on, loose any sticking parts, etc.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/26/23 5:05 a.m.

Likewise, if you are concerned about how much you don't know, you may be fearing the system and assuming the worst.  I'm not calling you out or anything, this is basic human nature and something that we all do at some point.

 

Carbs ARE fairly simple devices.  They are more or less just calibrated air leaks and calibrated fuel leaks.  They generally don't just fall out of calibration for the hell of it.  This is why the standing joke/rule of thumb is "it's always the ignition", the ignition system is the bit with parts that wear out and break down, not the carburetor.

 

Back to original point, if you have fear of a system due to percieved lack of knowledge, you may avoid it altogether because it all seems like a Black Box.  But let's review:  The idle is too low, and it stalls. 

It's stalling most likely because the idle is too low.  The idle speeds are set just high enough that the engines don't stall, therefore if the idle speed is too low, it may stall.

Idle speed is controlled by ignition timing and how far open the throttle plate is, just like if it were EFI.  Curtis raised a good point, "it's always the ignition", did the distributor get moved?  A timing light will tell you for sure.  It probably should be checked anyway, just to rule anything out BEFORE you mess with anything else.  What's the first rule?  It's always the ignition smiley 

Another point, which is highly unlikely since you didn't mention that the engine seems to really lack power, is if the timing chain skips a tooth, you will notice this by the ignition timing being REALLY far off, like 15-20 degrees off, and no evidence that the distributor had been moved.  But, again, you'd also have mentioned that it now doesn't have enough power to peel the skin off of warm pudding, so highly unlikely.  Still want to check the timing to verify timing.

If that checks good, or adjusting it makes it worse, then it is time to see why the throttle is too closed.  Could be because something that used to stick and hold it open is no longer sticking.  Could be a buildup of gunk in the throttle bore is blocking airflow, although this generally takes a long time and is highly uncommon on a carb what with the fuel flowing past it.  As also mentioned upthread, hitting everything with carb cleaner, inside and out, is a good place to start if only because it lets you see what you can see instead of seeing a mass of Stuff covered by a layer of goo and grime.

Carburetor problems usually result in weird drivability problems, not idling too low.  One thing that can happen is the idle speed screw can back off... which is simple, obvious, and you'll never see it if you don't look at it smiley

octavious
octavious Dork
8/26/23 10:08 a.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Oh I totally fear the system and assume when I start messing with it that I will be the cause of what makes it worse. Lol.


But so far my list is:

- carb cleaner to check for leaks while idling

- check timing 

- check choke

- check/change spark plugs (idk when those have been done) 

- change fuel filter (idk when that has been done) 

- idle jet needs checked and cleaned

- idle speed screw needs adjusted 

 

Am I missing anything? 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/26/23 10:14 a.m.

Forget the idle jet.  For one, that requires disassembly.  For two, I don't think this carburetor has one.  For three, that won't cause a low idle, it will cause a rough or nonexistent idle.

In reply to octavious :

I don't know if carb cleaner will find the air leaks, starter fluid will.

Carb cleaner to get the gunk and grime off, starter fluid to check for air leaks.

octavious
octavious Dork
8/26/23 10:39 a.m.

Thanks guys. I also found these

Ha.  I figured I'd see what's available online and found this link:  https://carburetor-parts.com/assets/2%20Jet.pdf

Don't overthink anything and you'll be in good shape.

L5wolvesf
L5wolvesf Dork
8/26/23 10:53 a.m.

A few things:

Pete said something that I had been thinking - your fear of carbs. Carbophobia is bad for your car/jeep and you. Stop it - now.

The rebuild sheet should have been with the rebuild kit. Do what it says - it is fairly easy.

There are likely 2 filters change BOTH.

 

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
8/26/23 12:11 p.m.
kb58 said:

Some people still badmouth EFI systems...

Show me these people!  I do not believe that they exist!  laugh

I've owned plenty of carbureted vehicles.  I was ready to put a 4-barrel on the Chevy II and I didn't even put up a fight when a knowledgeable friend advised me to go with a Holley EFI system.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/26/23 12:18 p.m.

In reply to octavious :

The only thing I would concern myself with in any of that is the bottom left image.  In theory the spring keeps the idle speed screw from backing off, in practice it does not.

Or something may have bent and the screw isn't even contactng anything anymore.

Or the choke was hanging up previously and the hot idle was set before the choke was fully released, now it is releasing and now the idle speed needs to be readjusted...

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa UltimaDork
8/26/23 12:31 p.m.
ГУЛАГ мальчик УР следующий said:

Ha.  I figured I'd see what's available online and found this link:  https://carburetor-parts.com/assets/2%20Jet.pdf

Don't overthink anything and you'll be in good shape.

Mike's is a great resource for anyone futzing with carbs these days.

914Driver
914Driver MegaDork
8/26/23 2:16 p.m.

LaSalles have the exhaust manifolds running on top of the block with the intake and carb in the middle.  Vapor lock is a biggie so I wrapped my fuel line in the foil temperature is indeed a factor.

Black pipes are the manifolds.

octavious
octavious Dork
8/26/23 3:33 p.m.

posting as I go. These are the driver side plugs. I have to move the horn to get to the pass side. I needed to pull one to get the plug number so I can go ahead and get new ones. Figured I'd pull all 3 and take a pic.

octavious
octavious Dork
8/26/23 4:05 p.m.

Passenger side.

914Driver
914Driver MegaDork
8/26/23 4:30 p.m.

The porcelain seems dirty and the gap looks big, correct heat range?

octavious
octavious Dork
8/26/23 4:34 p.m.

In reply to 914Driver :

Porcelain is dirty. I sprayed PB Blaster down on the plugs and let them sit before I attempted to remove.  Some gaps were bigger than recommended for an oddfire. So I recapped and reinstalled. 

octavious
octavious Dork
8/26/23 4:36 p.m.

After the plugs I removed the air filter and sprayed Seafoam into the carb. I had my wife step on the gas so I could spray it there as well. Afterwards it looks like I have leakage at these points where it is wet. 
 

I don't currently have any starter fluid so the vacuum leak check will have to wait until tomorrow. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/26/23 4:44 p.m.

Throttle shafts always leak.  They have no bushings and no seals, any air that leaks past them was deemed to be acceptable.

L5wolvesf
L5wolvesf Dork
8/26/23 5:01 p.m.
octavious said:

In reply to 914Driver :

Some gaps were bigger than recommended for an oddfire. So I recapped and reinstalled. 

The plugs look darker than they should so a bit rich.

How did it run after you regapped the plugs?

Did you clean them off before reinstall?

octavious
octavious Dork
8/26/23 5:05 p.m.

In reply to L5wolvesf :

I didn't clean them. I just checked the gaps and reinstalled to order new ones. 
 

And I haven't run it yet. 

octavious
octavious Dork
8/26/23 5:25 p.m.

So I just drove it around. Started fine. And idled fine. Even drove around fine., until you hit the brakes. And the harder you hit the brakes rhe faster it stalls. If I use the gears to slow down it doesn't stall. But if I put the clutch in and step on the brake it stalls. If I'm going good and stomp on the clutch and brake it dies. Fast.  But it restarts first crank and off you go. 

L5wolvesf
L5wolvesf Dork
8/26/23 5:31 p.m.
octavious said:

So I just drove it around. Started fine. And idled fine. Even drove around fine., until you hit the brakes. And the harder you hit the brakes rhe faster it stalls. If I use the gears to slow down it doesn't stall. But if I put the clutch in and step on the brake it stalls. If I'm going good and stomp on the clutch and brake it dies. Fast.  But it restarts first crank and off you go. 

Does it have a brake booster?

octavious
octavious Dork
8/26/23 5:34 p.m.

In reply to L5wolvesf :

No. Master cylinder and drum brakes all around. 
 

It's almost like the momentum of coming to a stop, and that forward motion is causing it to stall. 

L5wolvesf
L5wolvesf Dork
8/26/23 6:15 p.m.
octavious said:

In reply to L5wolvesf :

It's almost like the momentum of coming to a stop, and that forward motion is causing it to stall. 

Did you set the carb float according to the rebuild sheet?

My thought was well, but make sure the bolts holding the carb to manifold are snug, too.  I've had my car run funny only to realize one of those bolts had backed out a bit and the other was loose.

Mine just ran inconsistently, but it doesn't take much of an unmetered air leak to cause issues.

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