Challenge for the masses

After I attended my first GRM challenge this year I got to thinking. I had a great time and it was a ton of fun. I think the run what you brung double faceted dynamic competition of autocross and drag racing is great, but it's only one event per year and only held in Florida, which makes it much less accessible. (the trip alone can be cost prohibitive, not to mention the time off work) So, here is what I'm imagining... some local or regional events put on a couple of times per year. - Venues would be dragstrips with good large parking lots. - Autocross in the morning (maybe cut out a couple of runs for time's sake) - Drag racing in the late afternoon after a couple hour break. Have a set number of drag passes allowed. - Combine the scores to determine overall standings and trophies, (no concours) - Simplified classifications, maybe based on displacement and whether or not the car is running R compound tires

They tried a West cost challenge. I think Bryce was the only guy go show up.

While the theory is great, pretty sure trying to do too many events a year makes it cost prohibitive for the people having to make it happen.

I'd like to point out that they tried a west coast thing AWHILE AGO. The "racing junk with friends" idea has only recently caught on, I believe the last time they tried it was during a recession, when no one had money, or it was before that, which means they are due to try again!

You can't try something once, call it a failure, and never do it again. We would be helpless as a society with that mentality.

The GRM staff knows the days of "printed media" are numbered. I see them getting into a sanctioned, organized body to bring that "race junk with friends" event to the USA. After all, they have PLENTY of experience in this, more so than any other organization doing it. (Lemons, chump, etc). Furthermore, the GRM staff have the ability to report on this with journalism experience. This means a YouTube series bringing all the highlights from each location would be easy. (YouTube is the new journalism media). Those of us that say "wish there was somebody bringing this info to us on YouTube", could have that. A rebrand of the GRM?

Now i DO think the challenge shouldn't be right on the west coast. Make it like the "left side" of America. And for a few reasons: it rains all the time in Oregon and Washington. And California sucks for traffic, gas, people, and generally just trying to get anywhere. I would recommend a place like Arizona. It's warm and dry for the most part. The population isn't as condensed. The track events could be cheaper. And I'm sure some small town somewhere would love the publicity and traffic for economy.

For the past couple of years Summit Racing rents out the entire Norwalk Dragway aka Summit Motorsports Park and holds a customer appreciation weekend known as Super Summit.

Tons of vendors on site but best of all, two days if free drag passes and also an autox course giving free passes.
No classes. Run what you brung.

June every year in Northern Ohio (one hour between Cleveland and Toledo.)

All we would need is a panel of judges!

Additionally, this would be a great place for a Celebrity Challenge. Since vendors are onsite, it would seem magazines could be on site too for a GRM vs RK vs MCM vs etc Challenge!!!!

I'm a little suprised the scca regions dont do something like this. Rallycross, autocross and drags in a three day weekend, with an overall winner trophy.

I also think quantity of small events would be better. Like a tour of America. There doesn't HAVE to be drag racing. Without it, you can host an entire event in a parking lot for auto-x and concourse. Large parking lots are easier and cheaper to secure. There won't be a hundred cars show up (or maybe there will!) but a following will emerge and that's how branding gets known. If someone wants to do this for a business, then investment must be made. If someone does this of philanthropy, then it's a matter of getting it done.

The TEN group understands this. It's why they have gone to video media. The mags aren't selling because that generation is going away. Reach the kids with video media. Which means good journalism, that speaks to that generation, and reporting on the events. The nearest chump is WA. That's an 8hr drive from me. The nearest lemons is also WA. If someone brought something to closer, or a big event a little farther away, I would participate or at least attend.

Appleseed wrote: They tried a West cost challenge. I think Bryce was the only guy go show up.

during one of the worst economic periods of our time and it was poorly run/promoted. I know I was out of work around that time, so that precluded me from doing much of anything other than trying to find work. So taking a trip to San Diego from Portland was certainly out of the question. Many other West coast folks were in similar situations.

Every time this gets brought up, the same crab-pot people drag the discussion down by trotting this fact out. Why does trying once and failing mean that it can NEVER work?

Personally, given the number of autocross events held throughout the West, the number of great rust free cars and awesome fabricators/crazy people, it seems like it could work with the right efforts applied.

They have one event, local to them to generate an annual issue. It isn't really the sort of event that can scale. I think, that 99% of the people who are interested in competing, do. How many more people are going to be drawn to the 2nd or 3rd one in a year? How much more robust does a car that can last more than 3 drag pulls have to be? Do you really want to read 8 issues of challenge coverage? I mean, I don't even want to read just the one anymore.

Huckleberry said: That seems like it would just be a party where I check out what everyone else made and maybe show off a little while getting drunk with like minded strangers.

I completely represent your statement.

gearheadmb wrote: I'm a little suprised the scca regions dont do something like this. Rallycross, autocross and drags in a three day weekend, with an overall winner trophy.

This is more along the lines of what I was suggesting, not tasking GRM with organizing more $20xx events. (although we could probably look to GRM for guidance) Also, I would nix the cocours judging just to simplify it and remove the need for judges. I'm still on the fence about budget restrictions. If there is no budget to worry about there is no need for reviewing build books and addressing protests, again simplifying things. Maybe do something simple like displacement to weight ratio for dividing the classes. These events would give teams planning to attend the big GRM event in Florida a chance to practice as well as give lots of other people a chance to experience a combo event.

Shoot, you could run a good event in Texas too. SAR for the the drags and autocross and talk to Brianne Corn and use her facility for a RallyCross round. If you wanted to be really interesting get Harris Hill for time trials. All within an hour or so of one another and it would make for a really interesting event. Test the best overall car under $2K.

bigben wrote:

gearheadmb wrote: I'm a little suprised the scca regions dont do something like this. Rallycross, autocross and drags in a three day weekend, with an overall winner trophy.

This is more along the lines of what I was suggesting, not tasking GRM with organizing more $20xx events. (although we could probably look to GRM for guidance) Also, I would nix the cocours judging just to simplify it and remove the need for judges. I'm still on the fence about budget restrictions. If there is no budget to worry about there is no need for reviewing build books and addressing protests, again simplifying things. Maybe do something simple like displacement to weight ratio for dividing the classes. These events would give teams planning to attend the big GRM event in Florida a chance to practice as well as give lots of other people a chance to experience a combo event.

If I were setting it up I wouldn't put in a dollar limit, because I would want all the regular local competitors to be eligible to compete. I would hope to come up with some kind of handicapping system to level the playing field for the low buck guys.

JohnRW1621 wrote: For the past couple of years Summit Racing rents out the entire Norwalk Dragway aka Summit Motorsports Park and holds a customer appreciation weekend known as Super Summit. Tons of vendors on site but best of all, two days if free drag passes and also an autox course giving free passes. No classes. Run what you brung. June every year in Northern Ohio (one hour between Cleveland and Toledo.) All we would need is a panel of judges! Additionally, this would be a great place for a Celebrity Challenge. Since vendors are onsite, it would seem magazines could be on site too for a GRM vs RK vs MCM vs etc Challenge!!!!

Thanks for reminding me! I usually forget until it's too late and end up on call that weekend.

According to their calendar, it's June 9-10 this year

XLR99 wrote:

JohnRW1621 wrote: For the past couple of years Summit Racing rents out the entire Norwalk Dragway aka Summit Motorsports Park and holds a customer appreciation weekend known as Super Summit. Tons of vendors on site but best of all, two days if free drag passes and also an autox course giving free passes. No classes. Run what you brung. June every year in Northern Ohio (one hour between Cleveland and Toledo.) All we would need is a panel of judges! Additionally, this would be a great place for a Celebrity Challenge. Since vendors are onsite, it would seem magazines could be on site too for a GRM vs RK vs MCM vs etc Challenge!!!!

Thanks for reminding me! I usually forget until it's too late and end up on call that weekend. According to their calendar, it's June 9-10 this year

se-r vs z? you have 6 months to get it running.

i'll be looking to lay down a 10.xx in my challenge car prior to dragging it to florida, and will be scheduling that friday off work if at all possible

Super Summit is about 15 minutes from my house. For the past couple of years I have been there when the doors open Friday and run so much...I got all I wanted.

gearheadmb wrote: I'm a little suprised the scca regions dont do something like this. Rallycross, autocross and drags in a three day weekend, with an overall winner trophy.

I would be all over that.

The years that the RXNC was in Tulsa, the dragstrip was still running Friday or Saturday night drags, and some of the rallycrossers would run their cars for grins. Me, I'm usually dead tired and fast asleep by 9-10pm, no way am I going to go to midnight drags when I have a course to walk as soon as the sun comes up!

Its too bad we got sort of kicked out of NTR. Ohio Valley Region already autocrosses in the paddock/staging area, so a three-way combo event could theoretically have been able to happen there. Drag race, then autocross, then go across the street to rallycross. (In that order, I think)

I'm thinking there should be two classes, one where you have to run the same tires for all events and one where you can change tires as you wish. What is interesting is that autocross tires are not so good at being drag tires, so choosing what tire to use if you wanted an "edge" would be a serious game of rock-paper-scissors. My gut feeling is that streetable DOT-Rs would be the ticket but who knows?

bmw88rider wrote: Shoot, you could run a good event in Texas too. SAR for the the drags and autocross and talk to Brianne Corn and use her facility for a RallyCross round. If you wanted to be really interesting get Harris Hill for time trials. All within an hour or so of one another and it would make for a really interesting event. Test the best overall car under $2K.

Which local club do we need to talk to to get one on the schedule?!

I agree with the comment of not enforcing a budget restriction at a local event to help get higher participation.

Talk to Yates Jr. link it up to run in conjunction with OneLap where local budget builds can autocross or rallycross in the parking area of the hosting track facility.

In reply to patgizz:

I'm hoping we can get the SE-R running soon, like this week!

The SuperSummit looks like the ultimate test & tune, especially for the autocross course. Someone said last year there was a long line for the strip, but you could basically run continuously on the solo course.

In reply to XLR99:

This was the case 2 years ago as well. There was a guy in a 2nd generation F-body that must have got thirty runs in at the autocross.

I went in the Volvo, only did drag runs because I was on my winter tires. And discovered that maybe half of the 160 horses had gone out the barn door because it was running blazing 18 second quarters. Being used to a mid 13 second car, I was getting really bored at the 1/8 mile mark and fallin asleep by the 1000' lights. A week or three later, I installed a boost controller to bring the boost back up to stock levels...

As someone who is planning a 5400 Mile round trip to the challenge.....a west coast version would be stupendous and gaurentee my personal involvement for years to come.

Not that I don't plan going to the challenge anyway but it would be waaaaaayyyyy easier to drive a quarter of that in my 2000$ ish dollar car

I have not even been to a challenge, but I have a feeling that what makes it special are the people who show up and the people who are hosting it. Also, don't forget that part of the attraction is the built-in peanut gallery of US who have voyeuristically followed the various builds and are jonesing on our laptops to hear how they did, and what shenanigans the attendees got up to.

I think that trying to repackage that in another location would be like trying to re-cast top-gear. Simple in principle, but the magic would not be there.

In reply to NOHOME:

In addition, the likelihood of any organizers hosting more than one such event a year is highly unlikely, thus each location is likely to have a vastly different feel. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it creates a disjointed feel with a lack of consistency if you attend more than one.

I think a simpler plan is ask your local autocross group to add a sub $×××× amount in the registration and timing and scoring fields. That way you can sort results by that field and can talk to those drivers around paddock/grid and possibly create your own Facebook group to keep in contact between events and to talk builds. Heck of group of you make decide to either build or enter one of the current cars into the challenge.

Though it would be cool if some local/regional events could culminate in a Grand Finale in Florida, that's a lot to ask for. I'm still thinking of a much smaller start, more of just for fun events to spice things up a little, and who knows maybe it would even attract some new faces to the Solo scene. You know maybe get some of those guys that only go to the Fast Fridays at the local drag strip, and expose them to the fun of accelerating out of a corner and braking for the next.

There used to be a good venue here in Dallas, a nice 1/4 mile strip with a good parking lot where some of the local clubs would hold autocross events. Unfortunately, the owner ran into some difficulties and the track got turned into a truck parking lot.