Challenge Supreme Court (Questions Answered Here!)

In reply to GTXVette:

You'll need to establish a FMV. I'd suggest finding out what used tubing is worth on Craigslist. If it's "scrap value," then there's your answer.

I agree.

Parts trading/selloffs combination question

I didn't see it in the rules this year, so I'm assuming its no longer outlawed like it was in the past, but here goes: If you zero out a parts car's budget by selling parts, are you still allowed to trade other parts off it? I recall in the past, this was not allowed, so the workaround was to sell the car down to almost what you paid for it, so you could still trade any additional parts you had from it. I'm scrapping a donor car soon, and want to find out whether or not I can do some trading if it zeroes the budget.

Yes, you are still allowed to trade other parts off it, but you cannot profit off parts sales.

Tom Suddard wrote: Yes, you are still allowed to trade other parts off it, but you cannot profit off parts sales.

Thanks, that'll make it a bit easier for me to justify hoarding more parts off the donor car

Man, I really, really wish I had an anonymous account nobody knew about.

GTX, I'm not sure you're really embodying the spirit of the Challenge right now. The whole point is to show that you can build a fast car with limited resources and help. Not whine about the lack thereof.

It might be a good idea to spectate your first year and get a feel for the event before you build a car.

TRADING PARTS..HOW DO I COUNT IN BUDGET?

If I trade parts that came with my car purchase for other parts how does that count towards budget? For example I trade my TBI fuel injection for carburetor and manifold with no cash exchanging hands and no inside deal. Does it go towards my recoup limit? Or is it just a wash?

Just a wash, but write it down.

sound limits

Do we have any? Scca says 100db at 50 feet....

Dusterbd13 wrote: sound limits Do we have any? Scca says 100db at 50 feet....

The site hosts the Gatornationals-we aren't a noise problem.

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem:

You didn't have mufflers? It sure didn't seem that loud. Hmm...

Sigh...

Pete Gossett wrote: In reply to Ovid_and_Flem: You didn't have mufflers? It sure didn't seem that loud. Hmm...

You have to make power to be loud with open headers.

Ok, I know this one has come up before in another thread, but I do not recall ever seeing a definitive answer. What does this statement in the rules mean? We do not intend to exclude any past Challenge cars with these new rules. If you believe that your past Challenge car meets the spirit of the rules but not the exact letter of the new law. . .. Does it only apply to the production vehicles clause immediately preceding it or does it apply to the budget and other rules below it?

In reply to GTXVette:

Nobody's looking for you to apologize for anything. Just try to post with a more friendly, less confrontational attitude. The Challenge rules have been closely scrutinized for many years now, you'll have to work within them rather than try to change them to better fit your specific situation. The Challengers are a very friendly and helpful group of people. I hope we can show you if you make it Gainesville. Good luck!

Ovid_and_Flem wrote: I'm going to delete all my non technical related posts to clean this thread up so it can get back to being a technical issue only thread. Maybe if we all did it would be more concise and helpful.

Per Ovid_ and_Flem's suggestion, can we please bring this thread back to a technical discussion, and not a conversational one?

The there's plenty of space on this site for conversation, opinions, and general encouragement. This thread is for technical answers.

I have deleted all my non-technical posts.

missing receipts

I took pictures and notes of all the Craigslist/swap meet/etc scores. I don't have reciepts. All have been posted on the forum at time of score.

How do i put this in the build/budget book? Print picture with a note?

Trading with yourself? Is this an option? For example, if I have a pair of black door panels in my personal, non-challenge, parts stash, can I trade them for a set of gray panels out of my challenge car? Assume the parts are essentially the same, in the same condition, have the same FMV, and offer no performance advantage. It's just a matter of not wanting to "ruin" a perfectly good set of gray door panels by painting them black.

Another example: Can I trade a stock OE intake with carb out of my personal, non-challenge car parts stash for an a nice aftermarket aluminum intake that's in my challenge car? The FMV between the parts is essentially the same, there'd be a negative performance advantage, but it would mean I could get the challenge car running without having to source and buy an aftermarket carb (added cost to the budget).

Is this just a matter of making sure the FMV of each item in the trade is accounted for in the budget, as you would for an "inside" trade? Or is this considered more dubious? I'm just trying to find the best way to maximize my resources without violating the Challenge rules, and not have to get rid of cool parts I could use on other, non-challenge projects I have.

Actual trades with others that aren't done at FMV? Upon occasion, I've had instances where someone has needed/wanted something of mine enough to offer something with a higher FMV in trade, whether because it was rare (but not terribly valuable), or they simply needed it right then. Examples: I was once traded a new bushing set (FMV $50) for a spare turn signal stalk I had (FMV $25). Or I was also once traded an intercooler setup (FMV $150) for a set of OE wheels (FMV $100). The old saying is that something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay (trade) for it. Does this kind of trade "reset" FMV? If so, at the higher FMV, or the lower? And how would I account for those kinds of trades in my budget?

Are budgets continuous from year to year? I'm trying to decide how I build my challenge car this year and anticipate how I might change it for next year (if I choose to bring it). Would my budget from this year's build continue onto next year? Or is it an option to consider the car having a new total value of whatever my budget was for this year? I mean, if I build a challenge car for $1000 this year, is that the new starting value for the car for next year? Would I then be able to sell off parts from the up to that $1000 value next year?

What prompted this questions is that I have two engine options for my challenge car: build the stock engine or swap in another. Let's say I sell off parts to recoup the entire $350 purchase price of the car, and I choose to build the stock engine this year. If the budget is continuous from year to year, that would mean I can't sell off the stock engine and recoup any of my budget for next year. But if the new value of the car is set to the $1000 it cost to build for this year, I could then sell the stock engine and recoup some of that $1000 when building the car next year.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

Hi all, just wanted to say I haven't forgotten about you, and will be answering all these questions tomorrow. I took the weekend off to spend some time with the family. Sorry for the delay!

In reply to darkbuddha:

I can answer 2 of your questions, and offer an opinion on your third, but I will refrain, and wait for Tom's response (because I want to hear his response)...

Actual trades with others that aren't done at FMV? A trade is a trade, and has nothing to do with FMV. If you have a glovebox from your challenge car that someone is willing to trade for a T-56, go for it. (Know however, in this specific example, you will be questioned, and you'd better be able to document it). Value is irrelevant in trading. FMV ONLY applies to stuff you have in stock what you have no receipt for.

Are budgets continuous from year to year? No, that idea won't work. If you bought the car for $350, and recouped $350, you don't get to recoup more from the same purchase next year.

And you can't randomly assign a value based on this year's budget. Actually, that would work against you, because the value of the completed Challenge car is more than the value of the parts you put in it (your labor has value). So, the car you built for $1000 may be worth $1500 (if you were actually going to assign something like a fair value).

The starting value for next year's Challenge budget is where you left off this year. You can continue from where you left off, or sell or trade some additional stuff to give you space in the budget, but you can't "reset".

Example: My car cost $2000, and has $400 left in the recoup budget. I can sell the engine for $500, but I can only recoup the remaining $400. I can swap in a new engine, as long as I can do it for less than $417.

In reply to SVreX:

Could I at least remove/recoup the part of the budget that was spent on the engine from this year's build? For example, if I bought a cam, injectors, and gasket set, could I remove those costs from the budget when I swapped in a different engine for next year's build if none of those parts are used?

In reply to mck1117:

Yes. Traction Control is legal. Go for it!

In reply to Dusterbd13:

No sound limits.

THE REESE RULE: HARMONIC BALANCERS, FLYWHEELS, FLEX PLATES

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem:

Challenge Rules said: The Reese Rule: SFI-approved harmonic balancers, SFI-approved flywheels and SFI-approved flex plates are budget-neutral. These parts are dangerous rotating assemblies that should be treated with respect. Any intact harmonic balancer, flywheel, or flex plate listed on the budget may be exchanged for a duplicate SFI-approved part without increasing or decreasing the budget. “Duplicate” is defined as having the same listed application as the standard part in a major parts catalog. In situations where a standard part is not present to exchange, fair market value of the standard part may be used.

Include in your budget the value of the non-SFI unit.

TRADING PARTS..HOW DO I COUNT IN BUDGET?

In that case, write down your trade details on your budget sheet at $0 value.