consumables costs. please help!

hello, 

I have been doing a lot of reading and cant seem to nail down any actual ranges on consumables costs. I currently have a C8 corvette, and thats just way too expensive to risk at the track. Im looking at a few different cars to use as a track car, hopefully about 4-6x per year at organized track days. I have taken a couple classes at the Ron Fellows corvette school (level 1 and level 2) and really enjoyed being out on the track. But, I have 0 experience beyond those classes. The others in the class all had extensive experience, but each time by the end of the class , I was within a couple seconds of the fastest driver, so i guess i was doing ok.

I have a couple cars i have researched and am kinda going between, was wondering if anyone drives these and can give me a decent idea what a HPDE weekend looks like in cost, or what you think i would be in tires/brakes ect for the 4-6 sessions per year. Thanks in advance, any help is greatly appreciated.  the cars im considering are as follows

C7 Corvette (possibly C6) 

ND Miata, maybe NC

GR86/BRZ

Porsche Cayman/boxster (981 probably)

thanks again for any input!

Probably won't get cheaper for a dedicated track car than a Miata or Rush SR.

A set of 200tw 245s for a NB is probably not much more than a set of staggered rears for a Corvette, then throw in fuel and brake pads....

That being said, HPDE insurance from Hagarty, OnTrackInsurance (who I use), etc. will financially protect any losses while doing DE.

Consumables for a track car basically come down to weight/speed/balance. A lighter car going slower is going to put less wear on tires and brake pads (and everything else) than a fast, heavy car. Obscenely large brakes can also be less of a long term investment than they initially seem like as well, due to more thermal mass being better able to deal with the stresses.

Of that list, I'd probably opt for an NC prepped to the CSM rules, which give you a fun, relatively inexpensive track car that's also guaranteed competitive in a variety of venues.

May I suggest taking a look at the Toyota 86 or the Subaru BRZ? Both cars feature a lightweight design for agility and responsiveness on track courses. Plus they have a low center of gravity for stability and improved cornering performance. That paired with their rear-wheel drive layout really helps control during cornering. Best part, there are really great affordable aftermarket options that can help you tune it in to your needs. Hopefully this helps with some options :) 

i'll answer your C6 question directly based on my experiences.

I currently run 6-7 events a year /w most of them being 3 session events so probably 6-7 hours of track time a year.  I run at the front of intermediate group pace.  

I get 2 years out of a set of tire and run the goodyear SC3 tires which cost ~$1200 a set.  

I was running the powerstop pads and get about 3 events (9 sessions) and about 1.5 years out of rotors.  Pads were $250 for all 4 corners and rotors were around $300 for all 4 corners

fuel = full tank per hour of track time

fluids = diff, transmission fluid are once a year flush

engine oil = 2x yearly swap

coolant = send it (don't have water temp issues)

repairs = every year something on the car seems to break and require replacement and I budget that will cost $1000.  2 years ago during an alignment the car needed all 4 outer tie rods replaced last year, it needed a harmonic balancer, etc.  

upgrades = larger radiator, large oil cooler, springs, sway bars, and shocks... figure $4000 total parts if purchasing new.  

TL;DR, annual running costs for around 6-7 hours of track time = 

$600 tires, $700 brakes, $200 fluids, $400 fuel, $1000 unforeseen repairs = ~$3k annually

you're talking double that for your cadence

The NC Miata would be my pick, not because Miata is the answer but because it will be the cheapest to run.

I like fun tossable lightweight cars and a NC Miata will be 400-1000lbs lighter than any of the other cars on your list. HPDE's are not racing so the only goal is to enjoy yourself. You can have a lot of fun with a low powered car. I also like the low by in costs, if the car gets badly damaged or the motor goes kablamo I am not going to be heartbroken like I would in a Porsche.

As for the consumables: in the late 90s I ran a NA Showroom Stock C Miata at SCCA club races. Brake pads would last at least 8 weekends and I'd get three weekends out of a set of R-compound tires.  Note I did run very aggressive pads on that car and the rotors would need replacing when the pads did. For track days I'd use something less aggressive and save the rotors.

As for mileage the Miata got 9mpg on track (the motor never went below 5500 RPM). I would use a tank of fuel each day.

As for numbers here is my estimate based on entry fees in my area and costs for 200tw endurance tires and rotor friendly brake pads.

Entry $185 - $200 per day, fuel $50, Amortized cost of tires per day $125, Amortized cost of brake pads $30.........this comes out to a bit over $400 per day. 

I've driven a Toyobaru. They're a bit more expensive than a Miata (due to being heavier and more powerful) which is almost at the very bottom of the consumables cost scale, just above an old Civic or Corolla. Here are my usual costs. Note I don't street drive it much, it's mainly a track car I'd do 1-2 autocrosses per month and a few track days (maybe 4-8) with during our relatively short racing season.

Discs = ~$300 per year for a set of fairly ordinary discs like Centric blanks. Even with brake cooling scoops they get worn down to minimum thickness after a year, but different pad choices may get more life out of them.

Pads: These can vary a lot and it depends on what you run, but so far I've got pads that I can just about get through a full season with and they cost about $200 per set.

Tires: These can be all over the place, at the top end of the price scale you can buy a nice set of new tires like ECFs that cost nearly $1300 per set and they last me maybe two seasons. On the other end you can hunt around for great deals on used tires and spend around $400 on a used set that will last almost as long.

Gas: Mine has a tune for 92 octane which means it needs the best stuff most gas stations carry. On a full track day I'd blow through at least a full tank of gas, maybe more like 1.5. For an autocross I'd use maybe half to three-quarters of a tank, mostly driving there and back.

Engine oil = Mobil1 or Supertech full synthetic plus a Mobil1 or Mahle filter, changed once per year, maybe $50 to DIY it or $70~$80 with shop labor.

Brake fluid = Any decent DOT4/5.1 fluid, 1 change per year, costs very little, probably well under $15 per year.

Coolant = ordinary stuff, change it once every 2 years maybe, probably around $30~$70 depending on whether you DIY or pay a shop.

You also need to think about the cost of fixing the car if you damage it. I smashed my Toyobaru's nose a couple months ago and HO LEE E36 M3 it's a good thing I didn't buy anything more expensive. Modern safety items are madly expensive (look how much replacement airbags and seatbelt reels cost, make sure you're sitting down first) and you probably don't want anything with any autonomous driving features with costly sensors to smash. If you're converting a modern car for dedicated track use, replacing the headlights and perhaps also taillights with dummies could be a very worthwhile mod.

There are a few things that will need changing less frequently like trans & diff fluid but these are the major items.

Edit: Oh one more regular consumable that's a big ticket item if you're not trailering to and from the track, insurance. The Toyobaru is the most crashed car in the world and shockingly expensive to insure for its cost, weight and power. Comprehensive insurance costs me about $2k per year. That's more than I spend on gas, more than all the non-gas consumables, maybe even more than both of them combined.

I'm guessing my c5 runs me about $800 a day of track time. Typical time 1.4hrs a day C7 is a heavier and more powerful car.

Fees, tires, fuel, pads, rotors.

Biggest expense is tires. If you go with a known endurance tire you can save money there. Next biggest expense is brakes. I got a set from a vendor that will supposedly lifetime warranty them. I guess we will see how much that is worth soon. Either way its good to ask around. some pads last a lot longer and you can end up throwing away of a lot of pad on quick wearing ones since you need so much to go out safely. My rotors are kinda insane. I'll have to see if I can use the KNS blanks the spec corvette guys sometimes use. The wilwood rings are $400 a corner. ouch.

Add some in for general stuff like oil, fluids, and repairs.

FWIW the main reason to step down to a earlier corvette is going to be saving on insurance. That's a ton of cash every event. I had a M4 previously and much like your C8 I felt like it was too much risk at the track. Insurance was like $400 a day and really priced for a multi-day event. The C5 is cheap enough that the write off is palettable. Just keep that in mind if you decide to go get a c6z or something. Consumables aren't going to be night and day, especially for a relatively low number of days. Cheaper car is cheaper insurance and if you get to the point you are comfortable self insuring, then you can really save. Otherwise you need to step down a lot in car speed and size to make consumables mean much.

In reply to ClearWaterMS :

Thank you so much this is exactly the kind of answer I'm looking for . Great detail , much appreciated. 

Thanks everyone. This has been a huge help. Much better responses than all the stuff I was finding online. Much appreciated! 

From these responses I think I might go with the NC Miata. Now it's time to decide stick or auto hahaha

I noticed when driving the C8 in the lessons, 2 corners were connected into essentially one big one. In the first one like this you jave to come into the first in 3rd but going into the second half you can really get on the throttle and I found myself shifting into 4th towards the middle or end of the second turn, I feel like in manual it would be sketchy to take a hand off the wheel to shift in a corner like that and is end up holding 3rd longer and tacking out and losing speed. Is this a common thing or will it get more second nature in time? I have driven manual most of my driving life so I'm comfortable with it.  Ut I got small feet so idk about my ability to heel toe. Is that a real detriment? 

Thanks!

For the insurance on the BRZ, see if Erie is available in your area. My C8 is just I think 600 per year through them for full coverage with a 500 deductible. 

isullivan said:

I noticed when driving the C8 in the lessons, 2 corners were connected into essentially one big one. In the first one like this you jave to come into the first in 3rd but going into the second half you can really get on the throttle and I found myself shifting into 4th towards the middle or end of the second turn, I feel like in manual it would be sketchy to take a hand off the wheel to shift in a corner like that and is end up holding 3rd longer and tacking out and losing speed. Is this a common thing or will it get more second nature in time? I have driven manual most of my driving life so I'm comfortable with it.  Ut I got small feet so idk about my ability to heel toe. Is that a real detriment? 

 

I advocate with many students to shift less - if you have a corner as described, either find an short transition between the two corners to short shift, or just use the higher gear. In many cases, staying in the higher gear will cost less time than making two shifts (one down, one up). 

If you're struggling with heel/toe, I'd suggest an Autoblip. Turns mere mortals into Ayrton Senna! 

glyn ellis said:

If you're struggling with heel/toe, I'd suggest an Autoblip. Turns mere mortals into Ayrton Senna! 

I put one in and its really amazing. You see it in action- note the control box at the base of the center console.

In reply to isullivan :

Definitely go with a manual, taking a hand off the wheel isn't a big deal and you should get used to doing it soon enough. Small feet aren't necessarily a bad thing for heel-and-toe and could be a good thing if the car has a really tight footwell. Most cars will benefit from oversized pedals (or at least a bigger gas pedal) for heel-and-toe downshifts.

isullivan said:

From these responses I think I might go with the NC Miata. Now it's time to decide stick or auto hahaha

I feel like in manual it would be sketchy to take a hand off the wheel to shift in a corner like that and is end up holding 3rd longer and tacking out and losing speed. Is this a common thing or will it get more second nature in time?

 

I drive the least powerful car out of anyone on here (80hp at the wheels) and I will say this:

First it's not a big deal to shift mid-corner.

Second even in my gutless wonder it is usually better to roll through the corner in the tallest gear possible. When you have a car near the redline and you are trying to modulate the throttle a car becomes very pitch sensitive. That sensitivity translates to some rather unsmooth driving, which in turn scrubs speed. Finally the gain you may get by being in a lower gear is immediately lost if you have to up shift at the exit of the corner.

When I drive students cars I typically go around the whole course in third gear; I also encourage them to keep their shifting to a minimum. once they've mastered sections of the course I tell them to add downshifting where it's needed.

This is my long winded way of saying get a manual.

Paris Van Gorder said:

May I suggest taking a look at the Toyota 86 or the Subaru BRZ? Both cars feature a lightweight design for agility and responsiveness on track courses. Plus they have a low center of gravity for stability and improved cornering performance. That paired with their rear-wheel drive layout really helps control during cornering. Best part, there are really great affordable aftermarket options that can help you tune it in to your needs. Hopefully this helps with some options :) 

other than the glass engine they're great. K-swap it fixes that but that's another $8-10k

The topic of shifting mid-corner has been debated to death by  NASCAB, engineers, Crew Chiefs and Drivers all have an opinions.

My $.13 opinion, (12 wins  on road courses as Engineer), (3,200 # - 800 +/- RWHP) higher gear and use the right foot to keep the momentum moving forward

Good Luck and enjoy

RacingComputers said:

The topic of shifting mid-corner has been debated to death by  NASCAB, engineers, Crew Chiefs and Drivers all have an opinions.

My $.13 opinion, (12 wins  on road courses as Engineer), (3,200 # - 800 +/- RWHP) higher gear and use the right foot to keep the momentum moving forward

Good Luck and enjoy

Ironically this is the same exact method I use in the 1600lb 80whp car.

bobzilla said:

Paris Van Gorder said:

May I suggest taking a look at the Toyota 86 or the Subaru BRZ? Both cars feature a lightweight design for agility and responsiveness on track courses. Plus they have a low center of gravity for stability and improved cornering performance. That paired with their rear-wheel drive layout really helps control during cornering. Best part, there are really great affordable aftermarket options that can help you tune it in to your needs. Hopefully this helps with some options :) 

other than the glass engine they're great. K-swap it fixes that but that's another $8-10k

Or $1k to mod the stock engine to survive, but that isn't a guarantee, especially with the FA24 where the aftermarket is still testing the first possibly working oil baffle...