Duke wrote:
In reply to irish44j:
Was the intellectual property stolen from Bridgeport? No real way for a consumer to know, and that's *very* troubling.
That's not really much of a question; lots of IP is stolen, but this should surprise no one.
Latest Chinese fighter looks a lot like an F22. Hmph. Go figure.
For all that "modern China" has become, don't forget it's still a communist country, and still opposed to the US.
They're simply doing to us, in kind, what we did to the USSR. My apologies in advance to a very smart group of people on here, buy you're an idiot of you think otherwise.
That said, have I purchased parts for my garage made by several Chinese political prisoners who were probably successively executed for crappy welds until the last guy finished it? I have. And with my welding ability, I'd have been one of them.
Things that are built in China to specs from other countries seem to be decent quality. Something built to non other country spec seems to have questionable build quality.
Duke wrote:
Was it a good piece of equipment? Definitely. Was the intellectual property stolen from Bridgeport? No real way for a consumer to know, and that's *very* troubling.
Considering those things seem to have been around for about a century, I'm sure most of the key patents would be expired anyway. Cloning an expired patent is generally considered fair game. (It's possible some recent improvements may still be covered, but I'm not sure I'd expect a Bridgeport knock off to include them.)
Same dealeo with the chinese ripoff of Honda small engines. Most parts interchange.
Regardless of the quality of the good manufactured in China (and possibly a handful of other places) isn't it still just a bit infuriating that an "enemy" has decided that everything that they steal, by anyone at all, from anyone at all, is just fine because they don't have copyright laws?
Just that simple.
China doesn't have any copyright laws so Easy Peasy, now everything/anything is perfectly OK, because we have no laws against it. Nationalized, sanctioned, theft.
And surprisingly, the entire wold, the world of laws and mostly rational people, says, OK, we'll totally work with that."
And we buy everything that they sell to us. Use Walmart here as a fine example if you need one. We actually buy stolen designs, bootleg versions of our own goods from our enemy. We train nuclear and/or strategic weapons at the manufacturing towns that we also buy from.
Nobody stands back just a smidge and mutters, "Now THIS is really Fracked Up ! !"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0bNf-jcVU0
Isn't that simply INSANE though? At the very core of it ? ! ? ! ?
China Cheats ! Plain and fracking simple and everyone says, "OK."
Is that anyway to build an economy in the new century? It's just the craziest thing that I've ever heard of and the whole world plays along and seems to be waiting for the damned country to come to it's senses.
Look HARD ! ! ! ! It's NUTS! It really, truly is. The entire country . . . flat out CRAZY and they believe that they're correct in all of it because THEY'RE "the civilized world, apart from the "others," who are the "barbarians". The rest of the entire earth is populated by dirty, foolish Barbarians who don't deserve better treatment.
As late as the beginning of the twentieth century, the rulers of China considered, "Europe and America are far removed from the center of civilization. It would not be too far from the truth to think of Europeans and Americans as more like animals than human beings . . . "
OF COURSE, they find it correct to steal from us, we're nothing to them. And yet there's that need to take what they can't or won't design/invent on their own.
Just plain, flat out CRAZY at the very core ! ! !
Duke wrote:
In reply to irish44j:
My father bought a new knockoff / reproduction Bridgeport 3-axis milling machine called a Comet that was made in China. It cost less new than a very used Bridgeport was going for. It was a great piece of equipment and worked flawlessly. Genuine Bridgeport accessories mated right up with no trouble.
Was it a good piece of equipment? Definitely. Was the intellectual property stolen from Bridgeport? No real way for a consumer to know, and that's *very* troubling.
Oh, I'm definitely not denying rampant intellectual property theft at all. We see that all the time with maritime things. China has two tracks of production: copying, and simultaneously they have a robust R&D industry to develop things from scratch (there are something like 100-times as many certified engineers in China as in the US, and very few of them are out of work). Definitely hard to tell which products come from where. T
China didn't invent any of the tools at Harbor Freight, and probably is not paying any patent royalties on anything there. Doesn't stop all of us from buying stuff there :)
OldGray320i wrote:
Duke wrote:
In reply to irish44j:
Was the intellectual property stolen from Bridgeport? No real way for a consumer to know, and that's *very* troubling.
Latest Chinese fighter looks a lot like an F22. Hmph. Go figure.
And the F-22 looks a lot like fighters developed earlier in Russia and Europe. The new Chinese fighters look similar at a glance, but if you put them side by side, they really aren't very similar at all. That "general look" is pretty much the globally-accepted shape for low-signature aircraft with currently-available technology and materials. Aerodynamics and signature-reduction are well-understood concepts globally.
It's like saying a Benz G-wagon is a copy of a Ford Explorer because they both have 4 wheels, 4 doors, a roof, 4WD, and the same general shape 
TeamEvil wrote:
Isn't that simply INSANE though? At the very core of it ? ! ? ! ?
China Cheats ! Plain and fracking simple and everyone says, "OK."
Is that anyway to build an economy in the new century? It's just the craziest thing that I've ever heard of and the whole world plays along and seems to be waiting for the damned country to come to it's senses.
Look HARD ! ! ! ! It's NUTS! It really, truly is. The entire country . . . flat out CRAZY and they believe that they're correct in all of it because THEY'RE "the civilized world, apart from the "others," who are the "barbarians". The rest of the entire earth is populated by dirty, foolish Barbarians who don't deserve better treatment.
As late as the beginning of the twentieth century, the rulers of China considered, "Europe and America are far removed from the center of civilization. It would not be too far from the truth to think of Europeans and Americans as more like animals than human beings . . . "
OF COURSE, they find it correct to steal from us, we're nothing to them. And yet there's that need to take what they can't or won't design/invent on their own.
Just plain, flat out CRAZY at the very core ! ! !
Thank you. I am amazed that people will rush to the defense of China in spite of their human rights record, Tiananmen Square, child labor abuses, etc. etc. They just don't care. The lure of cheap goods overcomes all of it.
irt irish:
Last I looked, it wasn't similar, it was near exact. If you look at the MiG 25 (I think it was) and the F-15, they are "similar" but not exact. I don't recall the western Europeans having any twin tail airplanes; by and large, I think they were buying US hardware, the Harrier and Mirage planes notwithstanding...
I'll go take another look at that Chinese plane - which they flew upon Obama's arrival. The proverbial international diplomatic "bite me" if ever there were one.
OldGray320i wrote:
irt irish:
Last I looked, it wasn't similar, it was near exact. If you look at the MiG 25 (I think it was) and the F-15, they are "similar" but not exact. I don't recall the western Europeans having any twin tail airplanes; by and large, I think they were buying US hardware, the Harrier and Mirage planes notwithstanding...
I'll go take another look at that Chinese plane - which they flew upon Obama's arrival. The proverbial international diplomatic "bite me" if ever there were one.
edit: best for me not to continue arguing this point.
If you're interested in the J-31 (a twin-engine fighter which China is building to market against the single-engine F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, not the F-22 Raptor), and the J-20 (which is being built to fight against the F-22), there are some extremely long and informative threads on some of the Chinese military forums like china-defense.com.
Also look up the Sukhoi PAC-FA. It pretty much looks the same as all of these 5th-generation fighters as well (except Russia paints them in camo, not in black) :)
