Cross country EV roadtrip!

Woody said:

I find this very interesting to follow along, but it doesn’t seem like a lot of fun. I am intrigued by EVs, but I’m starting to think that I might have to ease into that world with some kind of hybrid first. 

It's really quite easy. You get in the car, say "I want to go to Denver", and the car says "ok, follow my lead". Voila.

Maybe you want to stop to pee on the way, or grab a lunch at that restaurant near the Glenwood superchargers that you like. So you say "take me to the superchargers in Glenwood" and the car says "okay" and rejiggers the rest of it. All of that about glide paths and charging speeds are for the geekiness.

The whole concept of only ever having to recharge when you get out of range of your house is the one you have to wrap your head around. Basically, you never have to think about refuelling at all. Janel took her Jeep yesterday morning to meet a friend at a trailhead that involved a rough road, and she had to stop at a gas station for the first time since May. She's suffering from culture shock :)

Keith Tanner said:

The whole concept of only ever having to recharge when you get out of range of your house is the one you have to wrap your head around. Basically, you never have to think about refuelling at all. Janel took her Jeep yesterday morning to meet a friend at a trailhead that involved a rough road, and she had to stop at a gas station for the first time since May. She's suffering from culture shock :)

Yes, this. Nicole and I don't really even think of our electric cars as needing fuel or having range, they just always have enough energy to do their job. Once every few months they don't, so we stop at a public charger or in the case of her Clarity, burn some gas. But she hasn't filled her tank since 2019. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

If I don't own a tesla, but I'd like to investigate making road trips in one as input to my potential purchase decision, is there information like that available on the Tesla website or elsewhere?

You can pretend you have a Tesla and put in your car and various end/stop points here: https://www.tesla.com/trips. Note that it will not include destination charging, so it's probably best to plan each day as a separate trip and assume you can get a full charge overnight.

It's kinda interesting to plan the same trip with different cars to see how the increase in range changes the math. IIRC the Model S charges more slowly than the 3/Y do as well.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Very interesting, thanks!

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I don't think I would have any sort of range anxiety using an EV as a daily driver, especially given my 25 mile commute to work, though whether or not I would be able to plug in at work remains to be tested. But I would certainly have range anxiety for just about anything beyond that.

If I were to spend $70,000 on a car, that would be the car that I'd want to take on a trip from Connecticut to Florida, Montreal, or even rural upstate New Hampshire, and I'm not ready to add that next degree of stress to traveling through an unfamiliar area.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Abetterrouteplanner.com is a great resource to plan trips for any EV you might be interested in.  For me, I have it set to Model S and then can adjust the wh/mi to fit my average utilization as I normally run with the autopilot set at 10 over the limit.  The car adjusts according by reading the speed limit signs except on those times it cannot see the signs or if the construction signage is less than clear.  The ABRP app will allow you to set beginning charge capacity and set low limits as well.  I usually only use this when I want to compare all of my route options on trips 500 miles or ove as the included navigation is so good.  The Tesla navigation also takes winds and elevation change into account when creating the route and establishing charging stations.  As to charge rates, old S/X were upgraded to 200kwh charging via a software update and were then updated again to 225kwh.  Newer S/X can charge at the same 250kwh rate as the 3/Y.  Autopilot really does take the edge off of very long drives.

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

The Tesla website gives you all the supercharger and destination charging locations right on their website as well.

Remember this? Spent some time hanging out in the Adirondacks. Philipp wired a 240v 40A plug in to the cabin where they were staying so the Model Y could charge "at home", and then it was used to haul everything an SUV is asked to haul. It's been busy.

But now they're on the way home. Right before they left, a software update came through that improved the efficiency of the car and gave them an extra 10 miles of range, which is nice. 

Day 1 - starting from Princeton, NJ instead of NY, so obviously they had something else to do.
Princeton, NJ to South Bend, IN. 700 miles. Late start at 10:30 AM.
Charging stops:
Tannersville, PA, 45 min, 12:00 PM
Falls Creek, PA, 35 min, 3:41 PM
Strongsville, OH, 20 min, 6:44 PM
Maumee, OH 25 min, 8:33 PM
There's a time change in there somewhere. But that's a total of 2h 5 minutes of charging time.

Day 2 - South Bend, IN to Lexington, NE. 762 miles. 9:30 AM start.
Charging stops:
Country Club Hills, IL, 20 min, 11:00 AM (there was some discussion about how this was very much not a country club)
Davenport, IA, 40 min, 1:39 PM
West Des Moines, IA, 40 min, 4:47 PM
Lincoln, NE, (cut off in screenshot), 7:56 PM
Again, time change.

Day 3 - Lexington, NE to SLC, UT. 720 miles. Departure time 9:30 AM.
Charging stops:
Sidney, NE, 40 min, 11:58 AM
Laramie, WY, 20 min, 2:46 PM
Rawlins, WY, 20 min, 4:27 PM
Rock Springs, WY, 30 min, 6:20 PM
Another time change. Total of 1h 50 minutes of charging.

They're on Day 3 now, so no further details on Day 4 :) 

I asked Philipp what he learned on the way out. He's not micromanaging the glide path anymore as it just doesn't pay off. He just sets the cruise to about 5 mph over the limit. So he's learned to trust the car and just do what it tells him for charging.

They're still having to plan their pit stops to make sure the limiting factor is the car and not the hooomans. 
"Quick stops are key. I know this from lemons of course, and it’s hard to wrap your head around just how much a small delay can set you back. Probably the biggest lesson from the first two days of the outbound is: the second the car says it’s done to charging to continue the trip, you unplug and go."

Anyone have any questions for Philipp? He's pretty accessible during the drive so I can pass them along.

A little more on pit stops from Philipp:

"To be fair, a 40 min stop is a different animal than a 20 min stop.

20 min means bathroom, maybe coffee refill, and that’s about it.

40 min means you can get a food, take out the trash, stretch your legs a bit. For instance, knowing we had 3 consecutive 40 min stops at Hy-Vees yesterday, we changed our food strategy a little bit. Rather than bringing every single meal in our cooler for all 4 days, we brought a lot less. That sped up packing and unpacking at the hotel mini fridge every day and filled our Hy-Vee charging stops perfectly. We never just sat around waiting but we weren’t rushed either."

A couple of notes:

The trip planner decided to request a slightly longer charge at Laramie and skip the Rawlins stop. Philipp has decided that 200 mile legs are just about right. Runs the car from 90% to 10% and minimizes the stops. In WY, that's a stop every 2.5-3 hours I assume.

Also, we were talking earlier about costs. Here's a report.

"On the outbound, we ended up paying $169 in total for Supercharging, over 2920 miles of driving. That comes out to less than 6ct/mile. Keep in mind that included starting with a full charge at home and 2.5 free overnight charges."

That's equivalent to 50 mpg if you're burning $2.50/gallon fuel. Or 60 mpg at $3.00.

He also considers Supercharging to cost about the same as when he's charging at home. There is a significant difference in energy costs between Colorado and California, I'll tell you that. We're at about 1/3 the cost.

Interesting information. Thanks for sharing. It's pretty amazing how fast the tech has progressed over the last 10 years. 

I think I'll stick to gas power for now though. If there is one thing I hate, it's planned trips. I have a start point, a end point and a rough timeline, usually +-12 hours but sometimes +-days. Everything in the middle is subject to change at a moments notice. I like to stop and smell the flowers or see what's at the top of that mountain over there. And a 2-3 hour detour to avoid a city is common. Long trips have been known to find me in the middle of nowhere with barely enough fuel to get back to civilization and gas is available just about everywhere.

Our last road trip it took us 4 days to make it from Maine to home in SC because we decided to stay in the mountains and off the interstates the entire way. We stayed in two hotels that still used actual keys to open the room door. The chances of a place like that having a charger is zero. Neither of them had cable and one didn't have internet. We were 2 days late getting home but it was worth every extra mile. 

As it stands, I don't think the current electric infrastructure would work for my style of traveling. It's still too limiting. It may get there eventually, but I don't see it happening any time soon. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

I don't think I would want to do 870 miles a day on a road trip in ANY car.  Doing it in an EV just says to me that the car is not the limiting factor.

I'm really comfortable putting in long days on the road. Last trip I drove for 21 hours, rested for two, ( couldn't sleep )  and then drove on into San Diego from Minneapolis.  1470 miles. 1 day 5 hours. 

I've done the same trip in 25 hours. In a 1972 Vega GT  actually it was to Balsam Lake Wisconsin. So add another 70/80 miles. 
My technique is I really relax.  Drink caffeinated   pop and eat sun flower seeds. ( breaking the seeds from the hulls  won't let me get drowsy ), Listen to books on tape.  My mind is distracted by the story I'm being told.  My eyes watch the road and the scenery.  I have excellent night vision so what most people see as darkness I make out everything. 
 

An electric would slow me down a little bit. Not much  driving the truck I seldom was stopped for more than 10 minutes as I'd refuel, check the car, empty my bladder, and stretch. The  nice thing was I could go about 500 miles on a tank 

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

Interesting information. Thanks for sharing. It's pretty amazing how fast the tech has progressed over the last 10 years. 

I think I'll stick to gas power for now though. If there is one thing I hate, it's planned trips. I have a start point, a end point and a rough timeline, usually +-12 hours but sometimes +-days. Everything in the middle is subject to change at a moments notice. I like to stop and smell the flowers or see what's at the top of that mountain over there. And a 2-3 hour detour to avoid a city is common. Long trips have been known to find me in the middle of nowhere with barely enough fuel to get back to civilization and gas is available just about everywhere.

Our last road trip it took us 4 days to make it from Maine to home in SC because we decided to stay in the mountains and off the interstates the entire way. We stayed in two hotels that still used actual keys to open the room door. The chances of a place like that having a charger is zero. Neither of them had cable and one didn't have internet. We were 2 days late getting home but it was worth every extra mile. 

As it stands, I don't think the current electric infrastructure would work for my style of traveling. It's still too limiting. It may get there eventually, but I don't see it happening any time soon. 

Counterpoint: if your hotel has electricity, it can charge an electric car. Cable and internet not necessary.

You don't need to plan obsessively. You let the nav system do that. Give it, oh, a start point and an end point and then do what you want. The car will adjust accordingly and help you. If you're really off the beaten path, you may have to resort to using an app to look for charging. But it's a lot more common than you think - see the example of the Adirondack end point of this trip. If you pride yourself on running low on fuel, well, that may continue to happen. In this case, Philipp did not plan any more excessively than his endurance racing engineer self would allow. He told the car where he was going and it told him the charging schedule. The only reason I know what it was is because he took a picture.

This particular trip is an example that one of the typical complaints about EVs - "but what if I need to drive from CA to NY in four days?" - is not really valid. The goal is to cover distance quickly, and that's working. If you've ever actually timed your stops, you'd know that the 10 minute fuel stop - especially if you're carrying enough fuel to cover 500 miles - is fantasy. 20 minutes is more realistic. I've driven with a log, I've seen the numbers. Stopping for roughly 2 hours over a 700 mile day is not out of line.

Philipp reports that they were being shadowed by their evil twin across WY. Another white Y. The other guy was driving faster but having to charge longer because of it so they were running pretty much neck and neck.

I've roadtripped with people like that, they haul ass when moving but have to stop more for various reasons. Easier to set the cruise control to the speed limit and relax than try to worry about "making time". I eventually dropped out of that particular convoy for future trips.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

But letting the nav system do the planning would end up taking me into those pesky cities I try my best to avoid to charge the car.

The Googles says a 12 hour charge at 120 volts gets you 25 miles of range, which is kind of a joke. So again, it won't do what I want it to do and I'm not willing to adjust my style of travel to accommodate the transportation I'm using. Not when there are better and cheaper options out there. $35k-$80k will buy a lot of gas for a $2500 Suburban.

While EVs are getting better, at this point they aren't the right tool for the job for me. 

Toyman wants to wander aimlessly.  I would agree they aren't the right tool for that.

That said, most people on this forum have a lot of cars, and an EV could certainly fit in there somewhere.  If I were going to become a 2 car household, an EV would likely be in the mix.

The hotel will have 220v, which mean Level 2 charging (30+ miles per hour, good for overnight) is possible. Sure, you'll have to ask and there may be some problem solving, but the US has a pretty solid electrical infrastructure.  RV campgrounds have high amperage outlets to rent, so you can always use the camping option. That opens up a lot of interesting possibilities for wandering. With 200+ miles of range, you're not charging as often as you think if your plan is to just noodle around. It's a matter of looking how you can make something work, not looking at how it can't.

But no, right now really capable EVs are not depreciated as far as an ICE. They simply haven't been around as long and the market values them more highly.  But the price of entry is below $35k, just look at Tuna's Bolt. 

About the RV park thing - I think parks are going to figure this out. I know a few people who have gone camping in their Teslas, plugging in overnight. There's even a "camp mode" that keeps the HVAC running while the car is in park. It'll probably become more popular with the Cybertruck and the Y than the sedans, but if you're into tents then that doesn't matter.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that EV is the only answer to every problem and everyone should get one today. I'm exploring what they're like to live with and where they do and don't work. There are legitimate use cases where they're just not ready, but it's also an interesting exercise to figure out how to make them work. I started this thread because it was a good example of the cross-country blast scenario being done by a normal person who's not trying to prove something, just trying to get across the country quickly.

Trip update: day 4 is the last day. 730-odd miles from SLC to the Bay area. Interestingly, only 1:35 of charging time. Probably because they have 4500' of elevation - ie, potential energy - to lose.

Just for fun, I used the Tesla trip planner to see if going through Hwy 50, the loneliest highway in America, would be an option using the Tesla Supercharger network. Umm, no. It's 440 miles from Wendover to Reno by that route and there are no Superchargers on the way. None even planned. There are some high speed chargers that would make it possible - Ely and Fallon would be the likely ones - but this would require planning using a cellphone instead of the onboard nav and making sure you have any adapters that might be required.

Actually, that theoretical highway 50 trip is an interesting one. Gas stations are not common on that corridor either. In fact, there's high speed charging available at almost every point where you could fuel up. 

Sigh. They just went blasting past the entrance for the Bonneville Speedway and did not stop. Who does that?

So I have another friend from CA who apparently has to be in NY right away and he's driving...a Model Y. Apparently I am consistent in my friends, but at least this car is a Performance. This guy is also a Lemons racer who drove a 24h race last weekend and who also borrowed my '66 Cadillac for a Lemons Rally a few years back.  Car guy. He's travelling with his wife and two kids - not sure of ages, 9 and ...something. 

No fear, this won't be a stop by stop story again. But despite both leaving from the Bay area, the Tesla is picking different Superchargers. Chris has reported that they have to scramble to pee before the car is done charging at some stops. The car likes to sip, 10-15 minutes at a time if it can.

At one point, his wife was hanging out in the sunshine participating in an online class while the EV fast charged halfway through a cross-country run. Picture that sentence from the viewpoint of a decade or two ago.

I'll report back if anything unusual happens.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

On our trip to NM in March I saw 3 or 4 transporters loaded with Teslas heading east. On our trip out there a couple of weeks ago I saw 3 or 4 Teslas driving. Granted, I-10 in West TX isn't completely in the middle of nowhere, but gas stations are far enough apart to give me a bit of range-anxiety in the van with a 35-gallon tank. :)

So it turns out Chris wasn't cannonballing. He stopped at High Plains Raceway (in a location that makes Thunderhill look like Times Square) to drive a turbo V6 Fiero in a Lemons race. There were two Model Ys in the paddock. They apparently took turns at the 50A RV hookup to get some juice. 

So there you go, racetrack charging :)

That fun is over. He's dealing with KS now, poor fellow. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

I don't think I would want to do 870 miles a day on a road trip in ANY car.  Doing it in an EV just says to me that the car is not the limiting factor.

I regularly Iron Man my trips. San Diego to My home in Minneapolis Minnesota (1567 miles)    is  24 hours away.  One day. But at age 72 I wonder how long I can continue that. I'm assuming if I were to buy a Ford F-150EV. It might add a couple of hours.   A short dose while charging up would feel nicely refreshing and might allow me to continue  for another decade or so.