DD Trackday Star

Originally budgeted for an S2k. However, given that I do quite a bit of trackdays, and would love to continue to do so, an S2k would exceed my budget with the required modifications. Basically think roughly $20k in total. The car will be primarily a DD with a very heavy trackday scedule, 10-20 per year. Maybe an autocross or two if codriver does not show up, but thats basically street driving. The race car is a kart, so this is more of touring different tracks on the upper west coast without making me worry about anything but driving. I want the car to be able to handle 20-30 min sessions in heat without breaking a sweat, ever.

Because the car will be a DD, it will be a situation of compromise but I want minimal wrenching and maximum, scalpel like driving. Which means the car has to be indestructible and low maintenance, in particular the brakes (The indestructible part). At my local track I have cooked every pad/compound/car within 5-20 min except a set of Ferrari ceramics. I want something a little more comfortable than the Sabelt Race Bucket I have been driving with. Hence with a budget of $20k and not wanting a 150k S2k, I am looking at something more in the $10-15k range so that I can outfit the car to my needs. It will be a DD, not a racecar, so some basic comfort is required. So the car should be light (consumables), rwd and bulletproof; sound familiar?

What the car will needs: Brakes. I have had enough of fading brakes, I want Superman brakes on steroids. No screw it, I want brakes that will beat the snot out of Steroid Superman brakes on a sick day. Best brakes I have felt on more than one occasion have come from AP Racing. Mixed experiences with Wilwoods. This is the one component I will not compromise on, ever, again. Reducing unsprung mass will be a huge bonus, 4-5lb per corner would be great and I will feel and appreciate the difference. 2-3k there.

Light wheels with some decent street tires. ie. RPF1's w/RS3's. A driver seat, something in between a full FIA bucket and a street seat. Something that I can get out of without looking like a clown but will hold me. Similar to a stock Elise/Exige/GT3 seat, no leather. Any recommendations? Another 2-3k. Already have harnesses, data acquisition and a wheel.

So aside from that suspension valved to my specs w/ my rates, rollbar, add lightness/stiffness and a rad. If I could add some decent power/response for 1-2k that will be a bonus.

NA miata: getting old, cheap.

NB miata: seems perfect actually for these needs, would love to have a bit more power, but beggars can't be choosers. Right within the budget.

MSM: IHI turbos nearly guaranteed to fail, I will drive them into the ground for sure. On the other hand, 200whp sounds perfect and should be easy. However I have heard so many horror stories of overheating, constant issues with manifold bolts coming loose etc. Remember, DD, must be reliable. I want to be the guy out there laughing not the one stuck on the sidelines chasing issues. Surprisingly I have had trouble finding many guys who track these in nearly stock condition. Most are street cars that are nearly stock or make 400whp+.

MRS: lightest car, could probably knock it down to 2000lb even while still being comfortable. Sorry engine, hard to make power, could swap in a relatively fragile 2zz. What I would want is k20 under there ideally, however the wrenching already doesnt sound fun. Ideal drivetrain layout. Right within budget.

Thanks for reading boys. Paging Keith ;)

Not that i would actually vote for an MSM in this scenario (i'd vote for stretching for the S2000 or just going with an NB Sport), but the turbos seem to be exceptionally long-lived on these cars.

That said... heat is an issue with a turbo miata track car, manifold bolts are an issue, the MSM oil catch/return system doesn't work and needs to be addressed, and the factory tune is godawful, so budget for that.

On the plus side, the MSM Bilsteins are the best dampers you can get on a budget (according to miataturbo) and with some sleeves and mounts, you've got yourself a hell of a setup for relatively little money.

For more information on tracking a turbo miata (including some very powerful cars), head over to miataturbo.net. Be sure that you aren't offended easily before creating an account.

E46 m3......pretty much checks all of your boxes

NA Miata with a turbo and Stage 8 hardware.

Done.

"Upper west coast", so by me? Why no Subaru then? WRX would tick a lot of your boxes.

I see you like mid-engine the most though, which begs the question, Boxster. The factory brakes can be pretty stellar and 911 stuff bolts on. Light, great steering, and it opens up/cheapens a lot of DE's up here (hello PCA!).

rwdsport wrote: NB miata: seems perfect actually for these needs, would love to have a bit more power, but beggars can't be choosers. Right within the budget.

I would think that you could buy a very nice NB that already has many of your required upgrades, add the rest, and STILL have money left over from $15k to add a fair amount of power.

yamaha wrote: E46 m3......pretty much checks all of your boxes

Except cost if he wants one that doesn't already have 100k+ miles on it

z31maniac wrote:

yamaha wrote: E46 m3......pretty much checks all of your boxes

Except cost if he wants one that doesn't already have 100k+ miles on it

M cars are always somewhat of an exception, but E46 values are in the E36 M3ter right now. Heh, I see what the filter did there. Frankly, I'd buy a 2004-2006 330i coupe and go from there.

Mod up an NA/NB Miata, blow all the cash on an S2k or go with the swapped MR-S. 2ZZs aren't fragile, but there's the work of an engine swap involved. The best way to get good brakes is to start with the lightest possible car...and cooling ducts can help a lot. Also see if you can fab up something like this for your car:

http://www.fourproducts.com/coolshim-products.php

I made a thread on just such an idea:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/idea-diy-heatsink-brake-pad-shims/54120/page1/

I considered the e46 M3. Waaay too heavy and consumables cost is too much. Not to mention that car will be at the top of my price bracket before I have to modify anything, at least for one that is DD wothy. Add tracking (particularly how I drive) and I will need to replace bushings every two years if not more often. Same goes for the WRX, the cars are simply too heavy. Also, no offence, but based on my experience at an autox, the Subarus are some of the least "fun" cars to drive. An s2000 is in my top 3 of any stock cars I have driven, just too expensive with what I would need to add to her. If I would stretch for an S2k, might as well get an FRS, simply because its newer and will last me at least 7 years.

To confess, I am quite a fan of cars that try to kill me. I have never found an S2k to have "snap-oversteer", I find it perfect. My cars have always been extremely tail happy and I actually set it up like that. Not to toot my own horn, but I am very comfortable in most cars sideways at speed (on track ofcourse).

I already had a turbo miata years back and that was a terrible experience. I am well acquainted with turbomiata community years back, you had to have a tough skin on there back then too. Way too much tinkering, tuning issues, secondary O2 went, 2 way LSD was noisy...etc. Way too much headache. The power is an afterthought.

Priorities are: Reliabilty and Accurate Driving Tool, Fun, Power/Overall Speed - in that order.

I have brake ducts on the current car. Wasn't enough haha. DTC 70s, RBF 600, Ducts = wheel weights melted off, all seals gone, 1 trackday aaaand the pad backing came out deformed in a crescent shape. I am not kidding when I say the track is hard on brakes.

FM V8 Miata?

Except for the crummy stock leather seat, you may be describing a C5 Z06.

I have to ask the obvious... Why not two cars?

He says he wants "scalpel" like driving, and the cars he has listed are all much more nimble in feeling than the BMW's.

The BMWs would be better DDs and grand touring cars to tracks however FM v8 miata is not coming in under used s2k budget

If he wants to spend sub 20k with nice tires and brakes and seats he needs to be looking closer to 10k for the car?

Boxster or C5 vette.

The vette would be good but would be the most expensive on consumables

Jaynen wrote: He says he wants "scalpel" like driving, and the cars he has listed are all much more nimble in feeling than the BMW's. The BMWs would be better DDs and grand touring cars to tracks however FM v8 miata is not coming in under used s2k budget If he wants to spend sub 20k with nice tires and brakes and seats he needs to be looking closer to 10k for the car?

You understand me exactly.

So again, Boxster.

nderwater wrote: I have to ask the obvious... Why not two cars?

Situation of compromise and lack of space for towing and dedicated car. I would never recommend what I am doing, 2 cars is always better. Slowly saving so that in 5 years I can move to w2w with a dedicated race car, currently that is a 125cc Rotax.

Javelin wrote: So again, Boxster.

I have driven a students non S 986. Honestly it was a very dissapointing experience but probably because my other student that day was the s2000. I would be worried about the consumables and engine lasting personally (RMS etc...)

Yeah, I'd be leaning towards the Boxster too if the numbers work out on mods.

It's either that or deal with the relatively low power of a stock Miata or MRS.

BTW - if the MRS 1zz is "sorry", are the Miata lumps as well? They both make about the same power.

Save up to $25k and buy an Elise.

That or what you already know: S2000.

I suppose it's possible to do a 350Z for your budget. A bit bigger/comfier and in the 10-12k range for stock with higher miles. Engine's pretty bulletproof and cheap if something goes wrong.

Keep in mind the S1 Elise is 1600lbs, even cheaper than the S2s, you don't have to look at those ugly headlights while you're driving it, and if you blow the Rover engine that's just an excuse to swap something better in.

I should add: I love and have owned turbo cars, but with your requirements of 10+ track days and Daily Driving from one mythical beast, I'd eliminate anything turbocharged.

Too many heat, maintenance, tuning and reliability issues, particularly with the urge to modify for more power.

In reply to rwdsport:

Drive an S and your view will quickly change. No engine problems on those, 6-speed, etc. Also find one with the good options (LSD, Sport Seats). Consumables are on par with an S2K according to our head DE instructor (who has both). $15K will get you in an S and it will need less mods than any of the others.