Decision time- Down to two

Just looking for opionions...

So, looking for a new DD/Autocross car. In my price range ive got it down to a 60-80k SVT Focus, or approx 100k Mini (NA).

I know about Mini's, But from all I've read about the SVT, it seems like it should be a darling of autocross and GRM-style autosports, but, at least where I live (long island, ny), It seems pretty absent...

I know about the Spec series, as I read it in an older GRM issue, but the coverage of that since, from most outlets even seems sub-par.

So what gives? Is there some hidden pitfall im missing?

You gotta be more specific about the cars you are considering (year, price, options, etc). The MINI was classed better in autocross than the SVT Focus, it was the car to have in HS from new (and GS for the S), and MINI paid contingency for winners in national events, so it was bound to be a more popular choice for autocross. They also made a whole lot more of them than SVT Focuses. I like both of these cars, but if you are talking about similar year and price, I'd go for the MINI every time, if only for the fact that it will depreciate much slower than any Focus.

I would also say that it depends on if you want a cookie cutter autox car or something a little less poplular. With the mini you should be able to find all the setup info you could ever want. With the focus, I would guess there will be less info and more trail and error.

I've owned both (well, the MINI was my wife's), and I have to say that I liked the SVT Focus better as a street car. When it comes to AutoX, however, I think that it's clear that the MINI is the better car for all of the reasons mentioned. OEM repair parts are cheaper for the Focus, which is an important factor at the mileages you're talking about for these cars. Initial buy-in is also cheaper on the SVT Focus, AND it feels a little more "special" being a limited edition model.

Focus, hands down, no question. Surely you've driven them both back to back by now.

I'll disagree. MINI all the way. We own a MINI, although it's an S. I test drove a Focus SVT not long a go and was underwhelmed. The motor felt okay, designed to high rev, so there's not much torque, but still felt good. The car handled okay, but just okay. It felt very truck-like and somewhat top heavy. If you closed your eyes, it felt like a Ranger. Now, I know you're talking about a N/A Mini, so it's probably slower in a straight line than the SVT,but the handling is worlds apart. It's unbelievable. I also disagree on daily driving in the Coop. We just did a 600 mile road trip in ours this weekend, and I'm 6'1" and 230 lbs. It was great. We also carpool to work in it 3 days a week. Admittedly, interstate seams will beat you up a little , but it won't be much better in the SVT I'd guess. Especially once you firm up the suspension to compensate for the Focus's body roll. I don't know if it's true, but I've heard stories of stock Foci on race tires rolling in autox races. Again, it may not be true or may be driver stupidity, but keep it in mind before you throw stickies on one.

Yep, I wouldn't autocross a stock Focus on R-compounds. I actually bet a guy a beer that a Focus would roll at an event—and won.

As a serious autocross nerd, I simply wouldn't choose anything other than the MINI. Sure, I'm biased, I've owned three—I spent my own money on them.

Now, if I wanted a cheap, fun rallycross car with plenty of rally-spec suspensions, the Focus is a good choice.

I ran a base Focus ZX3 in STS back in Detroit a million years ago. It was fun, but I think I'd pick a MINI over it, or an SVT for that matter.

What the Focus really needs is lots of negative camber and a limited slip. The base MINI seems much more capable in comparison, although if you put an LSD in both I'm not sure which I'd prefer.

ultraclyde wrote: We own a MINI, although it's an S.

And therefore you are instantly disqualified from making further comparisons between the BASE MINI and an SVT Focus.

ultraclyde wrote: It felt very truck-like ... If you closed your eyes, it felt like a Ranger.

Bull E36 M3. (and I've owned a couple of different Rangers too).

ultraclyde wrote: I also disagree on daily driving in the Coop.

You can't disagree with the MINI being a better daily driver than the Focus SVT because you haven't daily driven both. I have and you are wrong.

ultraclyde wrote: Admittedly, interstate seams will beat you up a little [in a MINI], but it won't be much better in the SVT I'd guess.

You guess wrong. The SVT Focus is taut and confidence-inspiring at higher speeds, yet doesn't beat you up -- much like a BMW. In comparison, the MINI is like an oxcart when the roads are bumpy. Sure, it's stable and confidence-inspiring at speed too -- but at a price of poorer ride quality. The SVT Focus is in that magical sweet spot.

Depends on what you really want out of the car. A nicer street car, or a better autocrosser.

I run my ZX2/SR on "R" tires. Of course it is a lot lower than the Focus.

Winston wrote: . In comparison, the MINI is like an oxcart when the roads are bumpy.

Ok...just to keep it fair, if you haven't owned an oxcart, I think you should refrain from using it as a point of comparison.

Hahahah! Just kidding, sort of

Clem

Some great info/opinions there gentlemen. Josh, im not talking about individual cars, so it a little hard to be more specific. I simply have a price point, and its come down to these 2 cars. The generalizations ive given cover what tends to be on the local market.

Per- if the closest rallycross wasnt 4 hours away, once a year, it would be Focus hands down. that and the R-compund rolling thing is a little of an eye opener.

Any opinions on the mini's durability past 100k?

I haven't seen much to indicate that MINIs become less reliable with mileage. I know less about the Focus, but the fact that it's a limited production, highly tuned motor in the SVT versus a common basic appliance type engine in the MINI would make me feel better about owning an MINI with advanced mileage.

I drove both of these back to back in '03 when I was considering one of them new, and came away with the impression that I would be happy with either one. The focus was more comfy and more fun pointed straight ahead, but the MINI was a LOT more fun in the corners. I went so far as to file an order sheet for the MINI, but in the end I decided to fix my Sentra instead of taking on a payment. The MINI was about the same price to buy, but considerably cheaper on a lease or lease/finance deal due to the difference in resale values. The MINI should be a lot cheaper to run as well, tires are smaller and cheaper, it uses a lot less fuel than the Focus, and I am not your insurance agent, but it will probably cost less to insure as well. Of course, if anyone needs to use the rear seat, or you need to haul band gear or a mountain bike in the back, the Focus will suit your needs much better.

Another option to consider would be a newer, potentially cheaper 2.3l PZEV Focus ZX3, those engines have much better torque than the SVT. Are you planning on using the car in Stock class or ST?

ultraclyde, please forgive the rudeness in my post above. I was having a grumpy morning

All better now, though

The key here for my opinion is Focus SVT & N/A Mini. Change either one of those variables and I would probably chnge my position.

Focus vs Mini ? Mini

Focus SVT vs Mini S? Probably Mini

Focus vs Mini S? Are you kidding?

I really really hate the drivetrain packaging in the mini. Looks like one good tap and it's all over. That's a completely uneducated observation btw.

hrm. not sure i would trust a 100k+ MINI. it is a new german car, after all. and the 2.0L 170hp focus engine isn't exctly a ragged-edge race motor. sheesh.

BobOfTheFuture wrote: and the R-compund rolling thing is a little of an eye opener.

i'd urge you to take those stories with of salt. they have a way of growing wildly on the internets. sure, more than one focus has probably rolled at an autoX. i know of one that did, and i know why it did, and it wasn't b/c it was a focus. besides, the SVT is a much differently-suspended beast.

it's not as if a focus is going to flip onto its roof as soon as you mount r-comps, just like a WRX is not going to skid off the road and burst into flame as soon as RE-92s are mounted, despite what the internets would have you believe.

Buzz Killington wrote: ...just like a WRX is not going to skid off the road and burst into flame as soon as RE-92s are mounted, despite what the internets would have you believe.

Having driven a car on RE-92s I'd have to disagree.

On topic, a good friend had an SVT Focus. The only thing that he ever had problems with was a cam sensor or some such thing failing. It was ridiculous fun and he always spoke highly of it. However, the interior SUCKED compared to the competition and reeked of ford cheapness. As far as fit, finish, and quality are concerned it isn't even on the same planet as the mini.

Minis don't seem to depreciate at all, focuses do nothing but. While most of the SVT Foci out there now should be getting cheap enough where it doesn't really matter anymore, it'll still hurt when you want to sell it.

Winston - Dam dude, ouch. Just my opinions, be cool. Seriously, I've had bad days lately, don't sweat it.

I know I've seen SVT Foci dirt cheap lately, and it's probably a great car to start with if you're willing to spend a little money and do the work. But I couldn't rock it unless I got it dirt cheap and stripped it bare. And I'm normally a Ford guy....

skruffy wrote: Minis don't seem to depreciate at all, focuses do nothing but. While most of the SVT Foci out there now should be getting cheap enough where it doesn't really matter anymore, it'll still hurt when you want to sell it.

another advantage foci.

they've nearly bottomed out, so to speak.

You're right about the mini holding value well, it's got nowhere to go but down.

I've never driven a Focus. Nor have I driven an NA Mini.

The wife and I do have a 2006 Mini Cooper S bought new (from Denis Miniero at Hassel Mini in Freeport). It has 45k miles on it now and we both love driving the car. The steering and sport suspension and brakes are surprisingly really good out of the box and the aftermarket is huge. I've been driving for 20 years now and I have never driven a FWD car that I enjoy as much as the Mini.

I think the Mini would be a more fun to drive car than the Focus and it seems very well put together. I'd love to autox this car. The steering and handling beg for it.

On the other hand, the Focus has more usable space (if you need more accessible backseats) and probably a cushier ride (due to the longer wheel base) so it might be somewhat more comfortable (depending on the roads you drive on). And it is cheaper.

Drive both and figure out which one is easier for you to live with.

'The MINI should be a lot cheaper to run as well, tires are smaller and cheaper, it uses a lot less fuel than the Focus, and I am not your insurance agent, but it will probably cost less to insure as well"

Good point, If the insurance would really be lower. I find this hard to belive... then again, I guess the SVT is a "performance model", huh.

"Drive both and figure out which one is easier for you to live with"

Need to do this. Dont think theres any first gen n/a ones that i can test drive at a dealership anymore...

Space isnt a huge deal, but would be handy, I guess the back seats on the mini fold down? How well? This is a specific question, but can a rifle case fit in there long-ways? (obviously cant sideways...)

I'm gonna throw in a dark horse here.. How about a Mazda 3? They can give a Mini a good run for their money in H stock. You have sedan and wagon flavors also and it should be in your price range?

I agree with 92dxman, the OP wants a Mazda 3. Very similar power to the SVT in a better handling package that is also competitivley classed for autocross.

Full disclosure: I currently have an SVT Focus as a semi-daily driver and track car.

If you're stuck on the original two, I'll offer my (perhaps biased) opinion on both. As others have noted, the MINI is a better autocross car, but the Focus is hands down a better street car. In fairness, I've only driven the MINI S and the convertible base model, but both were choppy and, in my opinion, uncomfortable. The ride in the SVT is, again in my opinion, the perfect combination of ride comfort with sporty handling.

The fuel economy difference is not as bad as people here are suggesting. I don't know what the MINI is rated, but the 25 mpg or whatever the Focus is rated under the new EPA system is crap. I routinely get 30+mpg on the highway and 27 or so in mixed driving.

I also don't know what all this rolling stuff is about, but I routinely track my stock SVT on NT01s and never lift more than one wheel, and rarely that. I don't know how Per won his beer, but my guess is that it was a regular Focus (not SVT) on Hoosiers or something similar on a fairly grippy surface going through a pretty extreme left-right-left.

While it is true that an LSD wouldn't hurt the SVT Focus, it wouldn't be my first upgrade. I think what it needs more than anything is camber plates up front and the adjustable rear subframe from Ford Racing in the rear. After that, I'd stiffen the springs and upgrade the shocks accordingly. By then it should really be needing that LSD, but, at least for the tracks I run, more lateral grip is what I could use most.

That said, my local track mostly has high speed sweepers where I'm at or near the top speed of most autocross courses (and in 3rd gear). If I was having to slow way down and really get on the power hard coming off a corner in 2nd I might sing a different tune about the LSD.

I didnt look at the 3's, thinking they were outta my price range, I'll check. (I didnt specify my range-up too 8500)

This is a surprinsingly hard decision, i seem to change my mind daily.

If that's $8500 +TT&L, you should be able to get a sub 50k SVT. Heck, I'd sell you my 46k Texas car for $8500.

BTW, there is one problem with the SVT that nobody's mentioned. The high pressure line for the power steering tends to fail, often taking the pump with it. This is not exactly cheap and/or easy to fix. The line costs more than the pump and snakes from the top/right/front of the engine bay to the steering rack just in front of the driver's feet. (Mine is freshly replaced.)