Maroon92 wrote:racerfink wrote: Wonder what the right side of Gunnar's helmet looks like? That's a SERIOUS safety issue.His helmet never touched the ground until he got on the grass. On a smooth paved surface, his head was about 6 inches from touching.
Anytime a drivers helmet touches the ground while the car is moving, it's a SERIOUS safety issue.
In reply to racerfink:
Except in this case, Jennette has reported his helmet NEVER touched the ground. Yeah, he was lucky but he also heaped praise on the design and construction of the car, too.
appears that at least in the grass it did.......then again too, they'll say it never did due to risk of being sidelined for safety concerns
Look at the video again. Just cause there were no scratches on the helmet, doesn't mean it didn't touch the ground. His head makes a big jump shortly after the car goes onto the grass.
In reply to nocones:
I am no racing expert, I only read about it on GRM, so please take my comments as opinions formed from facts in stories. I've never seen the DW in real life.
AFAIK, the DW was designed ground-up to be better on aero (ie - less drag) and fuel consumption than a "normal" car. So while the modified FA may run the same lap time, it's not going to be the same "lap". Assuming the aero is the big thing, let's say the DW goes 2 sec faster in the straights, but because of better mechanical frontal grip, the FA does better in braking/turn-in by an equal amount making the same lap time.
Even if both engines were equally efficient, the DW would use less fuel (lower drag = better MPG), going x laps farther between stops than the FA (x = maybe 1 at LeSarthe, 3-4 in Road Atlanta?), even with the same fuel load.
The closest I can get to information on MPG is that the Deltawings target for RA was 10.7mpg and that an old Swift brochure with the older toyota engine says 7mpg.
Assuming those numbers are consistent for all out qualifying laps the Deltawing has the advantage over the unmodified FA car. I'm not sure if you could realize a 30+% improvment in fuel economy by streamlining, relying on underbody aero and removing the wings but I suspect you could. Again I would like to see telemetry from these two cars to compare actual cornering and straightaway speeds as well as fuel use. It's an excersize that I'm unaware of being completed. The comparisons and advantages indicated of the DW are always to cars 2x+ the weight with 2x the power. Not to cars with 1x the weight and 1x the power.
Looks like the Green Hornet Porsche driver is a bit of an asshat: http://jalopnik.com/5952877/classy-race-car-driver-flips-off-the-driver-he-just-crashed-into
To be honest.. look at the video again.
The car flipped because the Porsche got into its tire. That is why it hopped the way it did.
Rustfinger wrote: Looks like the Green Hornet Porsche driver is a bit of an asshat: http://jalopnik.com/5952877/classy-race-car-driver-flips-off-the-driver-he-just-crashed-into
I would too if confronted with hands in the air as you drive past....
I hate to say this, where this occurred, is it even possible to carry 2 wide exiting that corner without contact(doesn't matter what it is) and is it possible the porsche driver was still running the line/not expecting the dw to be there. As with the lemans wreck, I'll play devils advocate here.
In reply to Rustfinger:
I like the comment:
"Here it is from another angle"
Something my worker community is speculating about: a lot of the "magic" of the DW is reduced weight. We're wondering if that's what causes the thing to fly off the road when someone hits it. Normal prototypes weigh about 900kg, the DW is less than 600 fully loaded. I'm guessing that a GTC car weighs considerably more, just because it's production-based.
Nobody I knew was working 11 (or at least has owned up to it yet, I'll update if I hear from somebody).
I'm going to miss the race this year because of the unemployment thing. I don't know how I feel about the whole experiment, but I sure did want to see it run in person!
yamaha wrote: I hate to say this, where this occurred, is it even possible to carry 2 wide exiting that corner without contact(doesn't matter what it is) and is it possible the porsche driver was still running the line/not expecting the dw to be there. As with the lemans wreck, I'll play devils advocate here.
It's possible, but if you get too far to drivers' right the you have to breathe it a little because of the elevation change. Also, it's blind when you come up to it, and pit in (for the Pro pits) is right there. Don't want to come smoking through there just to find somebody slowing. The Pro guys try to go down the middle instead of going full right.
I guess it depends on the cars..the Club guys do it a lot. Last time I worked 11 at Petit, I noticed a lot of prototypes trying to use it to pass GTs. Getting held up through 12 can destroy a lap time at RAtl.
Rustfinger wrote: Looks like the Green Hornet Porsche driver is a bit of an asshat: http://jalopnik.com/5952877/classy-race-car-driver-flips-off-the-driver-he-just-crashed-into
That Porsche driver must have really long arms to get this arm that far over at that angle.
93EXCivic wrote:Rustfinger wrote: Looks like the Green Hornet Porsche driver is a bit of an asshat: http://jalopnik.com/5952877/classy-race-car-driver-flips-off-the-driver-he-just-crashed-intoThat Porsche driver must have really long arms to get this arm that far over at that angle.
Yep. Looks like more J-nik sensationalistic journalism. I would not put it past them to photoshop something like that in there.
One more reason I don't read Gawker sites...
racerfink wrote: Look at the video again. Just cause there were no scratches on the helmet, doesn't mean it didn't touch the ground. His head makes a big jump shortly after the car goes onto the grass.
When I viewed it, it looks like the helmet snaps up because the car kicked something off the ground that hit him in the head. I don't think he hit the ground, just a part of it that was knocked loose or a piece of the car.
Not that either of those two things is very good.
nocones wrote: The big differnece would be increased drag on the Formula Atlantic but I'm not buying that until I see them run laps together and find out the Deltawing is running 20mph faster down the straights indicating that it has less drag.
The tires on an open wheel car give huge amounts of drag.
Supposedly the reduced drag on the deltawing compared to an LMP1 car (or whatever they call the top prototype class these days) is due to the smaller frontal area.
I'm surprised the rear of this car isn't scrubbed more often,ever drive a 3 wheeler back in the day?-its easy to forgot how wide the ass is after awhile.The car didn't flip because its light,the forward rotating rear wheel simple climbed the side of the 911 as its pretty much as exposed as an open wheeler due to the narrow front track. They don't let tin tops and open wheels run together for a reason so.......
Maroon92 wrote:93EXCivic wrote:Yep. Looks like more J-nik sensationalistic journalism. I would not put it past them to photoshop something like that in there. One more reason I don't read Gawker sites...Rustfinger wrote: Looks like the Green Hornet Porsche driver is a bit of an asshat: http://jalopnik.com/5952877/classy-race-car-driver-flips-off-the-driver-he-just-crashed-intoThat Porsche driver must have really long arms to get this arm that far over at that angle.
Look through the comments, I found this:
checking the video at 32 seconds now....
EDIT: Yep... it's there. What a d-bag.
As stated, I would have too....still the delta's job to pass clean, and if the porsche got loose, thats racing....deal with it.
friedgreencorrado wrote: Something my worker community is speculating about: a lot of the "magic" of the DW is reduced weight. We're wondering if that's what causes the thing to fly off the road when someone hits it. Normal prototypes weigh about 900kg, the DW is less than 600 fully loaded. I'm guessing that a GTC car weighs considerably more, just because it's production-based. Nobody I knew was working 11 (or at least has owned up to it yet, I'll update if I hear from somebody). I'm going to miss the race this year because of the unemployment thing. I don't know how I feel about the whole experiment, but I sure did want to see it run in person!
That and the 900kg prototypes have a tremendous aero downforce advantage that makes them seem heavier than they are.....
yamaha wrote: As stated, I would have too....still the delta's job to pass clean, and if the porsche got loose, thats racing....deal with it.
So if you drive off the side of the track then turn right into the side of the car passing you the driver you hit isn't allowed to be frustrated? I know accidents happen, but sometimes I don't get why some things are OK in racing and some aren't.
Travis_K wrote:yamaha wrote: As stated, I would have too....still the delta's job to pass clean, and if the porsche got loose, thats racing....deal with it.So if you drive off the side of the track then turn right into the side of the car passing you the driver you hit isn't allowed to be frustrated? I know accidents happen, but sometimes I don't get why some things are OK in racing and some aren't.
Travis, some people can't figure-out the idea that a one-car incident is "better" than taking-out two cars. Some people are idiots and some of those compete in the ALMS.
LeSaffre could have chosen to drive straight off the curbing and into the dirt but decided to stay on the asphalt. Instead of inflicting some "possible" damage to his own car, he still managed to do just that while nearly destroying another competitor's car. And then he complains that he had little to do with it.
The DW driver could have made the pass a little later. Then again, the Porsche driver should have paid more attention to his mirrors - he'd have seen a much faster car all over his butt into T10A.
In the vid, the DW is straight approaching the bridge. The Porsche has been overtaken, there is a big overcorrection move by it and its right front hit the DW's left rear.
It's always been my understanding that the car on the inside, once its nose is more than halfway up the side of the car being passed, 'owns' the corner. To try to push the overtaking car out of the way after that point is bad sportsmanship and very dangerous. Add to that the Porsche was almost in the dirt; he wasn't holding a proper line.
The Porsche driver is at fault, IMHO. His redemption is that he was probably surprised by a combination of rumble strips and the low DW and he 'jerked' the wheel, with the DW getting the short end of the stick. If he really shot the DW driver the bird, well, that is really crappy on his part.
Curmudgeon wrote: In the vid, the DW is straight approaching the bridge. The Porsche has been overtaken, there is a big overcorrection move by it and its right front hit the DW's left rear. It's always been my understanding that the car on the inside, once its nose is more than halfway up the side of the car being passed, 'owns' the corner. To try to push the overtaking car out of the way after that point is bad sportsmanship and very dangerous. Add to that the Porsche was almost in the dirt; he wasn't holding a proper line. The Porsche driver is at fault, IMHO. His redemption is that he was probably surprised by a combination of rumble strips and the low DW and he 'jerked' the wheel, with the DW getting the short end of the stick. If he really shot the DW driver the bird, well, that is really crappy on his part.
I agree on all counts after watching the video. Those guys are really good drivers. All of them. This makes me think he did it on purpose. Sort of like John Force driving out of the groove against his teamate last year - dude's too good to drive like that. Even I know not to do that, and I'm a terrible driver.
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