Since we don't do "polls" here: It's been suggested (in the Coal Rollers thread) that most of us here drive vehicles that are emissions violators. Some took exception (like me).
My '95 F150 is in compliance, as is my '02 Mazda Protege5. Both have factory converter and all emissions equipment.
Anyone else?
My 73 Volvo? I doubt it meets the standards, from the smell of the exhaust.
But 99% of my miles are in a Nissan Leaf.
The ones that would be eligible for testing would pass, assuming I needed to test. The rest are too old. Actually, the suburban might not but I rarely drive it.
My first gen insight makes up for it.
My Cobalt, Malibu, and Rogue all pass.
My Miata, probably not.
Complying with rules often stifles innovation. A 79 Mustang 5.0 was rated for 140hp/250lbs of tq. A 2015 mustang 5.0 is rated 435hp /400 lbs tq.
It's possible some greasy punk cruising around in a jacked up late 70's Mustang had a hand in the 2015 Mustang.
I may be wrong but I don't consider being able to smell the exhaust from a '68 Mustang (i do this three times per week) a violator. I wouldn't judge a car built 46 years ago with current emissions regs.
Remember the context of the thread in which it came up: a big Diesel blowing a massive black soot-storm.
Hal
SuperDork
10/12/14 8:53 p.m.
<-- Is fully compliant. The supercharger kit even has an EO# and is CARB certified. IT has an aftermarket catalytic converter but, it did pass the Maryland emissions sniffer test before they went with OBDII plug-in and then has passed the plug-in test twice since then. Our other two vehicles are 2010 and 2013 models and haven't been modified so they would be compliant also.
The van and 560SL are stock, so no and no. The Miata has a flyin' Miata exhaust with high flow cat and passed the required sniffer test, so no. The Midlana will be emissions system free and run on megasquirt, but will be registered as a collector vehicle with no emissions requirements so technically no.
Edit: forgot the Miata has an EGR free header, so I guess it is a sick bird of prey (ill eagle)
All of my newer cars pass emissions every year. My RX7 makes up for them all.
My SAAB c900 turbo has an "ornamental" cat, but still passes a sniffer test if I bring it in good and hot. It's 25 years old now, so I'm not sure if it will need to be tested again, I know if I put antique tags on it, it wouldn't need to tested, but I don't think thats the best route for it yet.
Everything else that I have is Honest Injun legit.
Where do "tuned" modern cars fit into this argument, err, I mean discussion?
For example, I hear that recent Subaru turbos come tuned way to lean from the factory. If you start tuning it richer, is it still legal according to the letter of the law?
SVreX
MegaDork
10/12/14 9:04 p.m.
In reply to ebonyandivory:
You are asking who is in compliance with the regulations, then defending your position by saying your own standard is that you regularly smell the exhaust from your '68 Mustang??
You realize this is quite absurd, right?
I'll up the ante. I will bet that the vast majority of the members of THIS BOARD (who are supposed to be familiar with car stuff) do not know the requirements of the Clean Air Act, nor how it applies (or doesn't apply) to their own vehicles.
I will go ahead and say it... I have more than a dozen running vehicles. I think only one of them would pass, but testing is not performed in my area, so there is no way I would know (and the last time I checked, sniffing my exhaust was not on the EPA's list of approved measuring techniques).
E&I: You are offended at being compared to coal rollers, but are very likely in violation of the actual regs.
I am pretty sure Cotton's original statement meant that most of us own vehicles which would not pass modern tests (although many of them are exempt). I don't think he was accusing everyone of driving illegally.
all of my vehicles have stock cats and easily pass the emissions tests. To add to that though.. I have never had the urge to make many of my cars "faster" I just prefer I do not have to slow down.. so it is the brakes and suspensions that I usually modify. I -might- add an aftermarket cat back exhaust
I have no clue what the requirements are, they don't test where Iive. Every thing I own now is stock, but I doubt the vast majority other cars I owned would pass, unless they were grandfathered
As much as humanly possible!
I live in Oklahoma where vehicle emissions tests are a myth like bigfoot, so technically im good
SVreX
MegaDork
10/12/14 9:47 p.m.
Having cats does not mean a car passes modern standards.
Standards vary by model, location, age, miles, etc.
For example...
If you have a 1968 Mustang, and live in an area that does testing, you will take your car to the testing facility, and the workers will stick a sniffer in your tailpipe, and pass your car.
That's because your car is exempt. Your emissions still exceed modern allowable standards by a long shot.
Your car is legal, and in compliance, but only because it is exempt. It does not meet the modern standards. It meets the same standards it did when it was manufactured in 1968. None.
Modern cars are held to a higher standard. Many of them are required to maintain 90% lower emissions outputs than your 1968 Mustang.
But even that is deceptive. The standards are for NEW vehicles, and imposed on manufacturers fleet wide. Your responsibility is to maintain the vehicle to the standard it was manufactured to. Varies vehicle to vehicle.
I'm pretty sure this even expires after a period of time defined as the lifespan of the vehicle.
NGTD
SuperDork
10/12/14 9:58 p.m.
I cannot and will not be required to be compliant with Clean Air Act.
The race Miata is way out of compliance, I'll admit to that. Everything else is as clean (or better) than it was new. I'm assuming that a catless LS1 is cleaner than an MGB engine here.
The diesel 3/4 ton still has DPFs and the factory tune. Squeaky clean.
my 84 T Type has a hollowed cat and an aftermarket chip in a slightly newer GM ecm..
my 86 Camaro says it's a V6 in the VIN, but has a 70's 350 block with 70's 305 heads with a fairly big cam... it has long tube headers, a single 3" glasspack, and an exhaust that sticks out in front of the passenger rear wheel..
the 95 Neon will not have a cat and will have a single glasspack muffler jammed on the end when it runs again..
my 97 Silverado has everything hooked up and functioning, but it has a fairly bad exhaust leak right before one of the converters. oddly enough, it doesn't seem to have any downstream 02 sensors on it, which means that my modifications going forward will be eaiser. i plan on getting rid of the cats and putting a slightly bigger exhaust on it (2.5 lead pipes vs the stock 2" pipes, single 3" muffler and tailpipe vs the stock 2.75") with a nice quiet big case turbo style muffler to let it breathe a little better and hopefully use a little less gas..
so, to answer the question: nope.. not really.. and i don't care.. none of them belch a big cloud of smoke when i drive them (the Camaro puffs a little when first started cold), and none of them are or will be offensively loud.
Clean Air Act said:
It is a violation of the [Clean Air Act] to manufacture, sell, or install a part for a motor vehicle that bypasses, defeats, or renders inoperative any emission control device.
Being in a state/county/city that does not test for emissions does not necessarily mean you are in compliance with the clean air act... it just means nobody's looking.
FWIW, I am in compliance. I have 100% of the factory emissions systems intact on my 3 cars.
At this time everything I own is 100% stock as it came from the dealer and less than 3 years old. I'm hoping that changes sometime soon, but more than likely it will not.
GVX19
Reader
10/12/14 10:44 p.m.
Im proud and sad to say Every YUGO that I have had at the Challenge, could and did emissions.
I'm sure it does.
1991 Ford 460 EFI, headers, shaved heads, timing bump, 180 thermostat, Banks kit, no cats and no air pump.